Life after Loss

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to the Second Row Conversations podcast. I'm late, Late, also known as Lady P. And I'm so excited that you decided to join me today on the Second row. First, let me thank everyone who's been reaching out, commenting, leaving me messages, letting me know how they've enjoyed the podcast. I truly, truly appreciate it. We are on this journey together, and I am grateful that you are right there with me today. I have a special guest. She is none other than Mrs. First Lady Nikki Spears. Hi, how are you? [00:00:39] Speaker B: I am doing well. Good morning. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me. This has been a long time coming. If y'all only knew what it's taken for us to get to this point. We have talked about the fact it's almost like the enemy didn't want us to get together and talk, but we are here, and I'm glad we were able to. To get together. So thank you. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Right time, right place, right? [00:01:03] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. All things work together. Right, Right, right. Perfect timing. Absolutely. So thank you again for being willing to join me today. I appreciate it. I truly appreciate it. So I start all podcasts off with the same question, so I'm going to kick it off with you. I'm the same way. So what are three words that your friends would use to describe you? [00:01:26] Speaker B: Three words. Kind. [00:01:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Supportive. And probably an overthinker sometimes. [00:01:40] Speaker A: Ooh, overthinker. Really? Really? Okay. All right. So I'm not gonna start with that. We're gonna come back to that. So you said kind. What was the second one? [00:01:49] Speaker B: Supportive. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Supportive, okay. Why would they. I know you're kind. You exude that. It comes out. That's who you are. Why supportive? Why do you think they would call you supportive? [00:02:00] Speaker B: Supportive. Because no matter where they are in life, what is going on, I'm going to be there to support. And really, no judgment, because we all have different stages in life. So supportive. I'm going to be there. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:19] Speaker B: If at all possible, I'm gonna be there. [00:02:23] Speaker A: That's good. No matter where they are. Right. [00:02:25] Speaker B: No matter where they are. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Judge free. And just to let you guys know, she is a school counselor. Yes, right. So we have that in common. That's one thing. So we've learned how to support people and not judge them. Right. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Treat them where they're at. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Right. Absolutely. Right, right, right. There's a new trend going on. We listen and we don't judge. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Right. So as counselors, I think that's just. We've always been doing that. We listen and we don't judge. So being supportive is very important for those friends. And so overthinker. Why that? Why overthinker? [00:03:00] Speaker B: Because sometimes I can just try to be ahead of things. I guess even with God, sometimes you can't plan it out. It's not going to always go as you planned. Sometime I can, you know, hold conversations with them. It's like you overthinking it. Don't overthink it. Just. Just let it flow. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Wow. [00:03:25] Speaker B: And, and I mean, and you say three. I'm always like trying to help. Okay, so that's the overthinker part. You know, let's. Let's just try to do this, let's. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Try to do that. [00:03:38] Speaker B: And sometimes it's just not gonna work out that way. But just being an overthinker, just trying to plan ahead. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:44] Speaker B: And that's probably because of that competitive spirit I have. You know, I play balls. Okay. You know, just always, you know, wanting to be strategic. Yes. [00:03:55] Speaker A: Uh huh. Okay, so you played basketball. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Yep. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Point guard. [00:03:58] Speaker B: So you gotta control, you gotta control the tempo and sometimes. And you are in control of everybody else and just making the plays, the playmakers. So that carries over into. To my life, I ain't gonna say everybody else's, but to mine. [00:04:14] Speaker A: So in that overthinking and trying to plan ahead, has it. Have there been times, I'm sorry, Have there been times where you have found yourself in that space where it's like, okay, everything just fell apart. This is not the way I wanted it to be. How have you overcome that, though? How have you overcome those times when that's happened? [00:04:34] Speaker B: Just being in the moment. [00:04:39] Speaker A: Okay. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Being in the moment and just taking it day by day, hour by hour, and just doing what I can do in that moment. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. And you said, God has told you. Hey, okay, Nikki, this. I know you trying to plan and make sure everything is perfect, but I got that. Has that been difficult for you? [00:05:00] Speaker B: Oh, yes. And I guess we'll probably get into that, like, even with Michael being a caregiver. Okay, so I've said it before. I said it at his, you know, at his funeral when he was, you know, sick. I tried to do everything possible. And then it was at the point to where God said, you're not God, right? [00:05:29] Speaker A: You're Nikki. [00:05:30] Speaker B: And you've done all you can do. So that's it. That's all you can do. [00:05:34] Speaker A: That's all you can do. [00:05:35] Speaker B: So. And like I said, as far as carrying over, it was a challenge. But like I said, I'm Learning how to just live in the moment. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:45] Speaker B: And, you know, plan. But don't try to overthink it. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Right. Just. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Just plan it. And if it goes that way, it goes. If not, then it's okay. [00:05:58] Speaker A: It's okay. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yes. Right. [00:05:59] Speaker A: One day at a time. [00:06:00] Speaker B: One day at a time. [00:06:00] Speaker A: That is my motto. I tell folks all the time. One day at a time. [00:06:03] Speaker B: That's all you can. I'm only one person. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. Right. Only one person. [00:06:08] Speaker B: Help everybody. [00:06:09] Speaker A: You can't as much as you want to. [00:06:11] Speaker B: Right. I cannot. [00:06:13] Speaker A: You have to learn that. Okay, you know what? I've done all that I can do, and now I really have to give it over to the Lord. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Which. And I saw your favorite scripture, Proverbs 3, 5, 6. Trust in the Lord. Right. With all your heart and lean not into your own understanding. Right, right, right, right. In all your ways, acknowledge him and he'll direct your path. Absolutely. So in that overthinking and then learning how to release that. It's the trusting. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:40] Speaker A: That's where you get to the point of the trusting. So let's talk about Michael. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So you were married to him. When did y'all meet? [00:06:49] Speaker B: We met in. Let's see what year it was. I can't even think of what year. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:58] Speaker B: But we. We met. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:01] Speaker B: I. I met Michael at. At Blue Cross. We worked. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Work together. So I met him there and I met him through a co. Worker. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:10] Speaker B: So that's kind of how we started, like, know. Talking. [00:07:15] Speaker A: Talking. Okay. Okay. And then it flourished in some. To something more. [00:07:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:19] Speaker A: And then you guys get married. When did y'all get married? [00:07:23] Speaker B: We got married in 2006 of May. [00:07:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:27] Speaker B: May 2000, as a matter of fact, was on my birthday. [00:07:30] Speaker A: Really? Oh, wow. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Always. For 16 years. He's always gotten me two presents. One for my birthday and one for our anniversary. [00:07:39] Speaker A: Always. Never was like, here's one gift, and that covers both. [00:07:43] Speaker B: He always. I've always. Cuz I told him, I said, look at you now, you know? [00:07:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:48] Speaker B: But he did. He did. He always. He always gotten me to give. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Okay, good, good, good. So when. So y'all got married and when did he come to you and say, hey, so we need to talk? The Lord has been dealing with me. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Well. Talking about as far as his ministry. [00:08:09] Speaker A: Ministry. Right. [00:08:09] Speaker B: So when I met Michael, he was already in ministry. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Already in ministry also. Okay, okay. [00:08:14] Speaker B: He was already in ministry. I mean, but when we actually got married, he was already in ministry. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Okay. Was. But was he pastoring at the time? [00:08:21] Speaker B: No, he Was not. [00:08:21] Speaker A: He was not pastoring. [00:08:22] Speaker B: He was at. We were at. He was at New Ebenezer. [00:08:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:08:26] Speaker B: So. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:08:27] Speaker B: But yeah, he was already in ministry. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Okay, okay. And you were okay with that? [00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah, because it was. It was like. Because when we actually kind of started talking, I was like, he a minister. Like, so what that means okay for me. [00:08:44] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:08:46] Speaker B: But. And I tell people all the time, like, even people that are their spouses or their significant other that are not in ministry, they're still human. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Don't forget that part. Cause we do have folks that, you know, figure like, oh, I can sit here, but they sit up here. [00:09:09] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:09:11] Speaker B: I will correct someone in a minute. He or she is still a female and a male. [00:09:18] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:18] Speaker B: They're still human. [00:09:19] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:19] Speaker B: So they make mistakes just like you. [00:09:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:09:23] Speaker B: They get in their car just like you. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:09:25] Speaker B: You know, unless they have other, you know, disabilities. But for the most part, they do the same thing you do. [00:09:31] Speaker A: They face struggles just like you. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Right, right, exactly that. So it was, you know, I dealt with that and I was like. But not too much because I think as the body of Christ, we all have a calling. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the pulpit. [00:09:54] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:54] Speaker B: But we all have a calling. [00:09:55] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:56] Speaker B: So, you know, I grew up in the church, so it wasn't intimidating, but it was like you just realize that he's a minister. So at the time it was like, just go with the flow. [00:10:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:14] Speaker B: I probably would say that was probably the living. Day by day. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:19] Speaker B: And like I said, I met. He was a minister, but, you know, of course I met Michael. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Right, Absolutely. [00:10:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [00:10:27] Speaker A: And so who was Michael? Tell me, tell me who was he? [00:10:33] Speaker B: Michael. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Not. Not pastor, not reverend, but just Michael. [00:10:37] Speaker B: I mean, Michael was kind of like, he was a laid back person, very direct. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:46] Speaker B: I mean, well, he took that to the pool pit in as well. But had a. Had a caring heart. Michael taught me about love. [00:10:58] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:59] Speaker B: I mean, he just. He taught me about love. So he was that person. Very conservative. [00:11:08] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:09] Speaker B: Very conservative. He. He wasn't a follower. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:14] Speaker B: Like what he. What he said and what he wasn't gonna do. That was him. That was him. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Okay? [00:11:20] Speaker B: So. But like I said, very conservative, kind hearted, Love people. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Love people. So like I said that. The love piece and how Christ loved the church, that was my Michael. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:42] Speaker B: And that's what I call him. I call him my Barack Obama. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Okay. Come on, Michelle. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. Your Barack. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:50] Speaker B: My Barack Obama. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Obama. [00:11:52] Speaker B: So that's what he was to me. [00:11:53] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:54] Speaker B: And that's what kind of person he was. Like I said, you know, most people didn't have to figure out where he was coming from. I mean, he. [00:12:03] Speaker A: What you saw is what you got. [00:12:04] Speaker B: Was what you got. Right. And he wasn't that person that was caught up on titles. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:10] Speaker B: So, like, when people met him, even when he became a pastor or. I mean, when he was a minister. Minister Spears. So you can call me Michael. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:19] Speaker B: So. [00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah, one important. Yeah. Then that's not always the case. [00:12:24] Speaker B: No, it's not. [00:12:24] Speaker A: People, but. Right. Yeah, but that's not. That just wasn't his personality. [00:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So fun. [00:12:31] Speaker A: He. [00:12:31] Speaker B: I mean, he loved to laugh. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, he loved to laugh. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:34] Speaker B: When you said. Yeah, he loved to laugh. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:37] Speaker B: So that. That was him. [00:12:39] Speaker A: So he. You married him. He's a minister, and then when did he become a pastor? [00:12:47] Speaker B: We. He became a pastor in 2011. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:52] Speaker B: At Olive Grove. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So. [00:12:56] Speaker B: So we were at New Ebenezer. You know, he would go and preach other places. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Whenever that assignment came. And then in 2011, he got the assignment for being in a pastor at Olive Grove. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Okay. So you go from minister's wife to. Now you are first lady, the pastor's wife. How was that transition for you? [00:13:18] Speaker B: I mean, it wasn't bad at all. And the people at Olive Grove, I mean, you know, until this day, I love that family. It was a family to us, you know, because we were there. I think it was 11 years. We were there 11 years. But the transition wasn't bad because I was active at New Ebenezer and then going to Olive Grove, I still. It wasn't, you know, no time to change anything now. You just keep doing what God allows you to do. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:13:58] Speaker B: So that's the transition. It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad at all. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Right. And that goes back, I think, to you talking about your purpose. If it's. You have a purpose, you have a calling, and you are already doing what it is, working for the kingdom, then it's just a different location. You're just moving locations. That's all you're doing. It's still. Yeah. [00:14:18] Speaker B: And just learning the people. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:14:20] Speaker B: No, that comes with the transition. That comes with, you know, a job. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:24] Speaker B: You know. [00:14:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:25] Speaker B: So, you know, learning the people, but the transition for. For me wasn't. Wasn't hard at all. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Okay. That's good. And you said it was a family, so getting there. And like you said, learning the People. But it sounds like they welcomed you, you both into the family. Yeah, yeah. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Not everybody, but. But. [00:14:47] Speaker A: Okay, Right. Keep it real. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Not everybody, but that's. [00:14:51] Speaker A: That's life. [00:14:52] Speaker B: That's life. [00:14:52] Speaker A: That's what it is. That's right. That's right. So you said not everybody. How. How. How did you handle the not everybody's? And I say, Hansel, not like, you know, were you. Confrontation on it, but just how did y'all. How did you deal with. [00:15:11] Speaker B: As far. As. I mean. And I mean, as far as handling the not everybody's. I mean, you just. You keep it moving, right? Yeah. You say what you say to everybody. You still speak, and if they don't want to speak, you keep it going. [00:15:30] Speaker A: That's right. [00:15:31] Speaker B: That's fine if you don't want to speak. But that didn't slow me down. I was very supportive of Michael. I was his armor bearer. Like, I can tell you if Michael probably crossed his legs, what he needed. And I always sat where I can always see him. So I didn't sit on the. Sit on the first row. I actually sat on the second row in front of the pulpit. Then I moved. I had pews on the side, so I moved there so I can see him, keep an eye on him. [00:16:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:12] Speaker B: So I didn't go to church meetings. I stayed home. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Yes, ma'am. [00:16:20] Speaker B: I didn't go to them. But like I said, for the most part, it's just like anywhere else. If I can see that, you know, you're not feeling me. So we'll keep our distance. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:16:35] Speaker B: But I'm speak. And if you, you know, if you don't speak, then we kind of know how to handle that. We just walk by. But for the most part, I try to. I tried it. [00:16:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:50] Speaker B: And it was like, no. So, you know, we just left it and then left it at that. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Because there are some situations where there are pastors and First Ladies that are dealing with that. And that's why I asked. You know, there are some people that just. Some First Ladies, they don't know what to do, how to handle it. You know, they are. With the. Not everybody's. I say it like that. That are welcoming or. Because you want to have people that don't agree all the time. Understandable. But it can be a challenge, especially for some people. I'm a people pleaser, so I want everybody. I want to, you know, unless everybody's saying, come by y'all. And we offer. But it was. It's a challenge when you realize you're just not gonna Always satisfy or please people. There are gonna be people that don't agree. They're gonna try to sow discord amongst the saints. So that's why I asked, you know, how did you maneuver that? How did you handle. And you. Right. It's just, you say you speak, right? And if they speak, that's great. If they don't, it's off of you. At least you've tried, right? [00:17:55] Speaker B: I mean, I, you know, you pray about it. [00:17:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:17:57] Speaker B: And then you, you'll go back and then if it, if it don't work, you just, you just. I mean, I know how to handle, I know how to handle you, absolutely. I, I tell you what, I didn't lose any sleep. [00:18:07] Speaker A: Uhuh. Come on. [00:18:08] Speaker B: I'm not going to lose any sleep. [00:18:09] Speaker A: That's right. [00:18:10] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't. So I didn't lose any sleep. Like I said, there were times at the beginning, like why? Because like you said, being a people pleaser or just trying to make sure just everything flows and everybody, you know, agrees or, you know, just smiling, but it's like, oh, that's. It's not gonna work. [00:18:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:30] Speaker B: It's not gonna work. [00:18:31] Speaker A: So you do all you can and let the Lord handle it. Right, Right, right, right, right. So you get there, you. There you are. What are some of the areas where you worked in Youth? Youth. Okay. You ab. [00:18:44] Speaker B: Youth. That was the first things. Youth. But to be honest, it was like a small congregation. But the youth, it was first the youth, then I mean, of course the women's. The women's ministry. But then it just got to the point, wherever, wherever it was, something was lacking, I would have my hand in it. And olive grove was very receptive. I mean, they was like, go for it. They were not like, oh, no, you can't do this. [00:19:28] Speaker A: Okay, That's. [00:19:29] Speaker B: So we were, like I said, a big family. So it was like, go for it. Go for it. And what? Like, when I first got there, one of the things as a young pastor's wife, and I, you know, I, I laugh about it and I. One of the things. And I advice that my leading lady gave me. Lottery Campbell. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:56] Speaker B: She said, be yourself. She said, let your no mean no, and your yes mean yes. But she said, the most important thing is don't change who you are. Absolutely. And so, you know, I took that advice with me. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:12] Speaker B: And you know, when I, when I first got there, there were some. That's like. And I had that issue at New Ebenezer, wearing a hat girl. So I mean, you want to Talk about it. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Let's talk about it. Cause that's been. Let's talk about it. [00:20:30] Speaker B: All right. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:31] Speaker B: So wearing a hat all at New Ebenezer on first Sundays. I'm not sure if they still do that now. I'm pretty sure they do. But on first Sundays, they, you know, they had. We wore the white, and then we wore the. They had on hats. So for years, I didn't wear a hat. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Cause I. First of all, I think my head too small. And so, I mean, I just didn't. Didn't wear a hat. So what. One Sunday at New Ebenezer, what change my mindset for wearing a hat was I saw a young. A little girl. It wasn't even a young lady. It was a little girl. And, well, I think she saw me. It wasn't at. At in the church setting. It was like in a store. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:28] Speaker B: And I was talking to her mom, and her comment was, that's the lady that don't have on a hat on Sundays. So I was like, I think I better get a hat. So that's how I started wearing. Yes. She was like, yeah, that's the lady that don't wear on Sundays. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Are you thinking. People not even paying attention, so, you. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Know, like a little child. So it's like, okay, you gotta. You gotta get yourself together together. So, I mean, nothing biblical, but it was just like, you know, if she noticed that, then of course everybody else knows. But they. Like I said. Nobody really said anything to me, but she was just like, yeah, that's the lady that don't wear a hat. And so that's when I started wearing one there. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Okay. [00:22:14] Speaker B: So of course, we're at. At our church and I don't wear a hat, but, you know, and it wasn't. They wore hats on first Sunday. It was just. I think some people were. It's in this tradition that, you know, oh, you know, pastor's wives wear hats. Yes. So I was like. And so I had a person to come and say, you wear hats? And I said, no, ma'am, I don't. And she said, you can wear a hat. I said, yeah, I can, but I don't. Yes, I don't. So I think we had something in the fellowship hall, and then their family came there, and she's like, yeah, this our first lady, and she don't wear a hat. And I said, no, ma'am, I don't. And so that's. I meant. Well, that's. That's kind of how it was. And so, you know, but like, I said, you had certain ones that when. When I first got there. Oh, you want to. This is what you want. We're going to do this and we're going to do that. And I was like, nah, no, I'm not going to do that. So. And that. That's when I really, like when Ms. Gamble told me that, I was like, so I have to stick to who I am. And that's. And that is not. That's not me. [00:23:45] Speaker A: And it's tradition. I went through that also because I'm a pk. My dad was a pastor, so of course my mom wore the hats. Like, that's what she wore every Sunday. My mom wore a hat every Sunday. Except youth Sunday. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Dress down Sunday. But every other Sunday she wore a hat. And hat boxes are all at the house. And she still. She doesn't wear them as much, but every Sunday. So when Jeremy was calling to the ministry and he became a pastor, I went into this space of not necessarily the hats, but suits, church suits, because that's what my mama wore. My mom wore church suits and hats. And so I went into this space of suits and suits and suits, and I got to find a suit. And then it was like one Sunday, I was trying to get ready for church, and it was like the Lord just said, you don't have to wear that. That's not you. Find your. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Who you are. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Find your. Find your space. Find who you are. It's okay. And I was released from that. I was released from that. And so I got into my own style. Find my own style. And that's who I am. I don't have to be my mama. [00:24:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:56] Speaker A: But there are people who absolutely. In this tradition, like I said, that's what they did forever. My mother in law wore hats, but that's just not my thing. I don't wear hats. God bless those who do. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:25:08] Speaker A: I mean, you can find some nice ones. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it's nothing, but. [00:25:12] Speaker A: It's just. [00:25:12] Speaker B: But that if that's what you do, that's what you do. [00:25:14] Speaker A: I'm good. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to go there and get the word. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Absolutely, Absolutely. [00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That was. That was. [00:25:22] Speaker A: That's interesting. Yeah. [00:25:23] Speaker B: But, yeah, like I said, and I probably went off track, but no, as far as the ministries, that's what I mean. I did some of everything. And it. At, you know, at the beginning, it was. It was more so like, what do y'all have? You know, where do you need me at? And then we're a team. We're gonna go for it. Just at the end of the day, we make sure we are building the kingdom. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:25:50] Speaker B: So I did some. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Everything. [00:25:52] Speaker B: So at the beginning, it was you. Then it expand to whatever it was that Michael needed. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Needed. Okay. [00:26:00] Speaker B: So. Okay. And. And we made it happen. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Because you're a team. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:05] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. [00:26:06] Speaker B: It was not gonna. It was not gonna happen. Not on his watch. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:11] Speaker B: So we were gonna make it happen. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. So. Absolutely. [00:26:15] Speaker B: That's my mentality. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah. That's good. That's good. So you are in ministry, you're pastoring, and then you become caretaker. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:25] Speaker A: How did that transition? When. When was that? [00:26:27] Speaker B: How was that for you? Well, of course, you know, Michael has sickle cells. Okay. Born. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker B: With it. So he always had that. One of Michael. Challenges. Challenges was even when we got married. So he was, you know, because you were born with that. So you've been dealing with that all your life. Right. So when we got married, there are times, you know, you have crisis. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:57] Speaker B: So he would have to go to the hospital. You stay right there. I take myself. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Wow. [00:27:04] Speaker B: I've been dealing with this all my life. So that's the kind of mindset he had. So at the beginning, he would take a self. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Okay. Was that hard for you? Because you are the. [00:27:20] Speaker B: So at the beginning, what I say hard. I just knew Michael, so I say, okay, I'm going to leave it. I'm going leave it like you say, you know? So he was like, I. You know, I've been dealing with this. And then like the second year, I was pregnant with Rodney, so he was like, nope, you stay here. I'll take myself. Now, of course, you get there when it's time to go home, then I will release you. So then you'll call me or his sister, somebody, and get him. No. To come and get him and take him to his car. And now I drive him home. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Wow. [00:28:01] Speaker B: So. Cause he drove himself, so he had to just come and get him. So anyway, in the beginning, at the very beginning, I kind of like, just went with the flow. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:11] Speaker B: You know, it'll change because. Yeah. He's been dealing with this all his life. So then eventually, you know, I say, look, I'm your wife. Death do us part. Rich, poor, we a team. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:26] Speaker B: So he started including me on it. [00:28:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:31] Speaker B: That was the marriage. So when we got to Olive Grove, he had a crisis. And it was the same thing. So he had a crisis. He was in there on the Sunday trying to get out. No, you not get out. So I was like, okay, it's Saturday, like, who go preach tomorrow? [00:28:55] Speaker A: Tomorrow, like, right? [00:28:59] Speaker B: So I think he had already been calling someone, but, like, okay, so when you go, let the deacons know at the church. I'm going to let him know. And I said, okay. So he had already told the guest speaker, you know what to do. Okay, but you still ain't told nobody to church. And he said, you can go. I said, okay, so I'm going to go to church. And I don't have. I mean, you know, what am I. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Going to tell the people? [00:29:25] Speaker B: What am I going to tell the people? So he was like, you just going to church? He didn't give me an answer. So. But anyway, he did. He finally called one of the deacons that Saturday night. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Wow. [00:29:41] Speaker B: And, you know, and told him that he was not going to be there and he was going to have a guest speaker. Okay. So that meant. And that he probably had that one crisis. And then I'm like, eventually, you gonna have to tell the. Have to tell the people. Like, hey. So he finally decided on one Sunday, hey, you know, I have, you know, sickle cell. Of course, I know most of y'all know that. And, you know, he. He was very honest with them. He said, I have been dealing with this all my life, so I just need y'all to give me a moment to kind of let y'all in, okay? He said, you know, I'm very private when it comes to that, but just give me a moment. And, you know, I promise you, I'm not going to, like, hide nothing, but just give me a moment. Cause this is. I deal with this, okay? Y'all don't have to deal with this. I mean, but, yeah, we are together, but just give me a moment to transition into that part of my life. So he did tell them that. And it was like, you know, okay. So, you know, eventually, once he said that, then it was kind of like if they didn't see him, they knew. And then, for the most part, I would still come to church. [00:31:00] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:01] Speaker B: So they'll just probably ask me, like, how is pastor doing? Okay, in the very beginning. And then, like I said, as the years went on, because now, you know, people. Then he would like, you know, okay, y'all, I have a doctor's appointment or something like that. So the caregiver part wasn't that major. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Probably until the. The last two. Probably after Michael. Mom passed. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:41] Speaker B: So. But like, in the beginning, like Kerrigan, it was kind of like clockwork. Like, we go to the hospital, get a transfusion, say a couple of days. And then we go home. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:52] Speaker B: And so even with me working, it was like, I may. I take him to the hospital and then I can go on to work. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:02] Speaker B: I bring some breakfast, I go to work. I come there after work. So it was like that. I mean. And when I say Michael was very private, like when we first got married, you don't even have to call my mama. And I was like, yeah. He. When I say he didn't want anybody. No, nobody, like. And so the mom, when she called Michael and she couldn't get him, she started figuring out. When she called him, he didn't answer. Then she called me, where's my son? And I was like. And I felt bad because I'm like, you keeping stuff from your mama. But that's how he was. [00:32:42] Speaker A: He just wanted to go through it himself. Didn't want to bother anybody. That's what it was. [00:32:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess, you know, I guess we had to put ourselves in, you know, people with, you know, illnesses. Illnesses like that, Chronic illnesses. It's like, for two seconds, it's like. One of the things that I would think of is I don't want nobody to feel sorry for me. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker B: And that's. That was his thing. I want nobody to feel sorry for me. I mean, I've even taken Michael from the hospital, go home and get dressed and go preach, or vice versa. He wasn't feeling well. He would go preach, and then we would go to the hospital afterwards. Yeah, that's where I got it from. That's where I got it from. There are probably a lot of things that I picked up from him since he's been gone. Very direct, but. Yeah. So that. And then, like you said, this transition to being a caregiver. So at the beginning, it wasn't. It was a caregiver. But if I had to do it all over again, I'll be right there. Absolutely right there. And I don't know who could. I've had people say, I don't know if I can do all what you did. And I say, it ain't for everybody. [00:34:04] Speaker A: It's not for everybody. [00:34:05] Speaker B: It's not for everybody. And to be honest with you, I don't even know how I know how I did it. It was God's. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:34:13] Speaker B: It was God's strength and God's help. I know how. That was the only way. And then, like I said, the love that Michael had for me is nothing compared. I mean, God love is the greatest. But besides that, it's Michael's right for me. [00:34:40] Speaker A: Wow. [00:34:41] Speaker B: Yeah. It's Michael. [00:34:42] Speaker A: So because of that love, then that's. That's what helps you. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yes. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Be able to care for him in that. In that space. Yeah. And you're right. It's not for everybody. Everybody can't. Can't do it. But when you love someone genuinely, then you don't think twice about no being there for them. No. [00:35:04] Speaker B: I was very. I was an advocate. Like, especially those last two years, I had to become the advocate for Michael. Like, my children was like, Especially my baby girl. She was like Maha in the world, you know? Cause, like, in the beginning, we go to the hospital, you know, when you go get checked in, in the er, they ask you your medications. Micah could name all this medication. I'm looking like, how, you know, if you take all your things, how do you know? [00:35:34] Speaker A: Remember that? [00:35:35] Speaker B: Like, to the. Down to the dosage. He knew all of that. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Okay. [00:35:39] Speaker B: So the last two years, that was me. Like, he take this. He take that, take this. And it even got to the point to where I had some of the nurses, they said, you a nurse? I was like, no. Wow. This. This come clockwork, like, you ain't gonna do it. I'll do it myself. [00:36:00] Speaker A: Cause this is my husband, right. [00:36:02] Speaker B: And they knew, like, when I came in, when I was coming down the hall, it's like, is his room right? Yeah. Cause if not, I'm coming back out and I'm gonna tell you what needs to be done. I had notes on his bed, like on the air. Where the controller for the air conditioner. Please do not turn it up to pass this degrees. He has sickle cells. So that means it does not need to be Coling. [00:36:27] Speaker A: That's right. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Certain kind of tape on his arm. Please do not put this. I need the. [00:36:32] Speaker A: I love it. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I had. I had notes on the bed. So, like, this is what needs to be done. Had all his medications. If they didn't have them, I was. I'm like, I got it at home. I just need you to. I'll bring it. You get it approved. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:48] Speaker B: And. Cause he needs to take this. So that, like I said in the last two years, as far as that caregiving piece, that's what it. You know, that's what. For me, the caregiving piece. Then for the most part, Michael, he took very good care of himself. Cause most people like, yo, he got sickle cell, like, yeah. And it's like, well, he don't look like it. I said, he took very good care of himself. And for, you know, men, most of the time, they don't like to go to the doctor if something's wrong. [00:37:19] Speaker A: The doctor. [00:37:20] Speaker B: Oh, he front and center. Like, I'm going, something. Something's not right or this is hurting or whatever. So he always. I probably was the one like, I'll be okay. Give me some kind of remedy. You know, Let me think about what grandma and granddaddy did. Right? Or used to do. So it was like, yeah. But he. I didn't have a problem with him not going. He would do what needed to be done. Yeah. So I did that. The last year of Michael's life, he had to end up doing dialysis. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:37:56] Speaker B: So that was a challenge for us, because, you know, who wants to do that anyway? But he did. And then when we started, it was like he wanted to do it at home. So I was like, so Michael, get. In the beginning of, you know, our marriage, he got transfusions. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Okay. [00:38:22] Speaker B: So, of course, going in the hospital, they gotta stick you. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:26] Speaker B: So I went from him being stuck to I'll leave out the room. Cause I didn't like needles. To where I had to actually give him the needle. I had to stick him, really. So I knew, like, this whole journey was only preparation for whatever God got me for next, but going from there. And when he said he wanted to do that, I was like, lord, how in the world. And I told her, I said, michael, I gotta stick you. [00:39:01] Speaker A: I have to stick you. Like, are you sure you. [00:39:03] Speaker B: And he said, nikki, you can do it. He said, I know you can do it. So I. You know, I was like, lord, what? I mean, you gonna have to help me through this. So I had to go through the training and all that. And then we. We did dialysis at home. [00:39:17] Speaker A: Wow. [00:39:18] Speaker B: So growth. That's right. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Growth. You grew through this whole process, this journey. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was like. It was. I mean. And I did it. I mean, it wasn't. No looking back. Because he wanted to do it at home. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:34] Speaker B: So I wanted to make sure that he was happy. And that's what we did. You did. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So you were able to get over that not liking needles to the point where you are doing dialysis at home. Wow. Wow. So you are in that space and you're helping him that last year. What are some lessons that you learned in the time of being the caretaker and watching him as he went through this journey himself? What are some lessons you think that you learned? [00:40:15] Speaker B: One of the. Is biblical. I can do all things through Christ. Yes. Who strengthens me. That. [00:40:23] Speaker A: That if that's your testimony, you are. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, it was. I meant because even. Even during that time, I still went to church and see, we were just coming back from the COVID Right. So doing that. I was doing the announcements. I was giving them updates on Michael, but it was. I was just walking. Walking with God. Like, I don't know what tomorrow's going to bring, but I'm just gonna walk with you. So one. That's one lesson. And another one would be. I'm trying to think. It was love. It was. It was. It was just love. Like love at all costs. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:30] Speaker B: Right. Love at all costs. Like I said, if I had to do it over, I'd do it again. I'll do it again. But love at all costs. [00:41:41] Speaker A: Love at all costs. Wow. Yeah. No matter what. [00:41:44] Speaker B: No matter what. Absolutely. [00:41:46] Speaker A: So Michael is going on to be with the Lord. Transition has been the theme that every time I thought about us getting together, it's transitioning from being right there while he's pastoring to now you're on the side of widow. So first lady. So how has that been for you? For moving from he's here, he's passionate to now he's gone. And so now what? Where do I fit in? How do I fit in? Because there are first ladies who are in this space. Right. And so that was something that I really knew I wanted to talk to you about. Like, how was that? [00:42:30] Speaker B: So it's. It's. It's challenging. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:42:33] Speaker B: Very. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Okay. [00:42:34] Speaker B: Challenging with all capital letters. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Okay. So going from in the beginning, you know, I stayed at our church. I couldn't leave until God released me. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:52] Speaker B: All of us are on assignment. And some was like, why are you still there? I was like, I can't go until God released me. You just. If you don't get it, you don't get it. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:02] Speaker B: And if, you know, you know, you know, you know. [00:43:04] Speaker A: And I can't explain it to you. [00:43:05] Speaker B: I can't explain it. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:43:07] Speaker B: But if you don't. It's just what it is. [00:43:09] Speaker A: It is. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. I think I only stayed. It was, what, maybe two, three months. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:21] Speaker B: And I was going at the beginning that month, getting up and going, but my son wasn't going. And he said, ma, I can't go there. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:29] Speaker B: He said, dad is not there. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:32] Speaker B: So I was going by myself. And then probably that next month, it was like I was. I was struggling to get up because, you know, you go to church. I was. We were going to church every Sunday. I mean, you know, of course, if Michael couldn't go but for 11 years, it was. [00:43:52] Speaker A: That's what we did. [00:43:53] Speaker B: That's what we did. Yeah. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:55] Speaker B: So I was. [00:43:56] Speaker A: And he would have wanted you. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Expected you. [00:43:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Come on. Come on, Nikki. [00:44:02] Speaker B: You got. I mean, like, even with my son, he knew Sundays. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker B: It's. It's time to go to church. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:08] Speaker B: So I found myself, like, struggling. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:14] Speaker B: It's like, what. What. What am I to do? What do you want me to do out there? So it wasn't. [00:44:21] Speaker A: He. [00:44:22] Speaker B: God wasn't giving me any assignments. I was like, so where am I to go? Yeah, where am I to go? Am I go. Go back to where Michael and I started, or am I go. Go back to my home church? So I pondered on that one Sunday, I got up and I was headed to Olive Grove. Lord said, nah, don't go there. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:46] Speaker B: So I turned and I went to a church I'd never been to before. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:51] Speaker B: I went there and I went there that one Sunday. But I still was like, so where am I go, you know, worship? So I was like, you know, thinking and praying, thinking and praying. Going back to the church where Michael and I was. That's still attached to Michael. Because now I'm dealing with who is Nikki, right? Yes, yes. Who is. Who is Nikki? And, you know, Michael was my covering. So it was. It was Nikki and Michael for 16 years. Absolutely. So like I said, now is who is Nikki? So I end up. I prayed and I prayed. Didn't go. Didn't go to New Ebenezer, because that was Nikki and Michael. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:46] Speaker B: So I went back to my home church in Florence. And when I got there, probably I end up rejoining my home church on Mike, which would have been Michael and I. Pastoral anniversary, really. So I end up joining there on that Sunday. And I sat at the back for a couple of months because. And I sat back there. It's like, you know, I had some people, like, why you sitting back? First of all, as long as I'm in here, right? [00:46:22] Speaker A: That's the first thing I'm here. [00:46:23] Speaker B: But I was like. And I. And I told him. I didn't. I wasn't smart with the mom. I told him. I said, well, I gotta sit back. Because I was very, very active where I came from. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Like. [00:46:37] Speaker B: Like I said, like, anything that needed to be done and nobody, you know, could do it. You did. I did it. And. And like I said, Olive Grove was very supportive. Very supportive. I couldn't ask for a better church. I promise you, I could not ask for a better church. But very active and Then just, you know, transition. Wasn't caught up on the title. It was just that being active and doing. And then now it's like, it's not the same. So I went to my home church and sat at the back. When I. When I first got there, it's like, oh. And it wasn't everybody. We, you know, certain people, oh, you can do this. You can do that. I was like, no, I won't do nothing. [00:47:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:37] Speaker B: So I did that for a whole year. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Okay. [00:47:41] Speaker B: Because you can't go somewhere and then I'm not the pastor's wife anymore, so I can't go in here and think I'm the pastor's wife. [00:47:50] Speaker A: Exactly, because you're not. [00:47:52] Speaker B: I'm not the pastor's wife, so. And I, you know, I don't want to go in there and just. I'm in a different role now. So like I said, I sat back for a year, and I finally moved up. Probably was this year. Finally moved up halfway. Still not in the. You know, it's about six seats from the front, but I moved up. Still not that active yet. Because God hasn't, you know, led me to where you need to. Where I need to be. Now. I've talked to my leading lady, and we talked about some things. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Okay. [00:48:35] Speaker B: So, you know, just. Just waiting on the timing. God's timing. So that. That's kind of where I'm at now. And I don't go to church every Sunday. I don't. And then if I feel like going to visit another church. [00:48:52] Speaker A: You have the freedom. [00:48:53] Speaker B: I have the freedom to do that. So, like I said, that's kind of where I'm at. Just trying to figure out life without Michael. [00:49:03] Speaker A: And this could be that time of restoration, having people pour into you. And. And it's okay. Yeah, that's okay. No one is ex. Should expect you to just, like you said, jump in. Like, I'm here now, and I'm gonna do all of these things. No, this is the time as reflection. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:31] Speaker A: Finding out again, who is Nikki? [00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Where does Nikki fit in? And asking, where. Where would it. Where would you have me to. Because like you said earlier, it's a calling. It's a purpose. So I'm here. But we don't want to work outside of the purpose. [00:49:47] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:49:48] Speaker A: And so it's important, like you said, just be there, supportive. And the Lord let you know. He'll let you know where you're supposed to be. And it's okay. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's okay. [00:49:59] Speaker A: It's okay. And I think that's what people need to understand. It's okay. But I will say strength is who you are. Because I remember, you know, finding out that he had passed away. And I think you spoke at his funeral. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I did. [00:50:18] Speaker A: And I wasn't there. But I remember hearing about it. I was like, she's amazing. That's just the strength. [00:50:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. That's all it was. [00:50:25] Speaker A: And I'm sure people. I know. I was praying for you, and I'm sure it's, you know, sometimes it's not sometimes. We survived during that period of loss by the prayers of folks. That's how you make it. Yeah. [00:50:39] Speaker B: I've had people to, like, say, like, even for Michael's funeral, I didn't shed not one tear. And I didn't. And as far as sharing tears, it could be different things. So, you know, some people, you know. Oh, it could be different things when people shed tears. You know, some people share tears of joy. So. But as far as, like, even, like, after the death. Okay. I'm dealing with the grief part of it. I'm dealing with that. [00:51:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:14] Speaker B: But it was more so to where, when I knew that I did everything that I could for my husband. And I have some people, it can be negative and it can be positive. However you want to put it. Right. However you want to put it in your math book. Yes. But, you know, I have some people, like, she's moved on and, you know, her husband just passed. Yeah. I can. And I can hold my head up because I took care of my husband. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:51:50] Speaker B: And so when you know that you've done all that you could, then I don't have to sit back and like, oh, what if I could have done this? Or what if I could have done that? And Michael and I talked even before he left, like a year before he left. He told me, who you want to preach? He told me, nikki, something happened to me. He said, don't you be at that grave site every day, all the time. He said. Cause only dead things are out there. And he said, so you gotta keep living. And he told me, don't do no balloon releases over me, okay? So I said, okay. I was like, okay. I said, no, I don't. He said, I'm a memorial. Don't do that. He said, now, whoever wanna do that, that's fine, but I don't want that. So, you know, and people don't know. [00:52:48] Speaker A: The conversations that you had. Right. So you're outside looking in, you have no idea. [00:52:52] Speaker B: You have no idea. So, you know, as far as that, as Far as to keep living. And no, I'm not living my best life. I'm just living. I'm just living because, I mean, I was living with Michael, and I have to continue to. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:53:08] Speaker B: Ain't no start living. I was living with him as well. So it's no start living off. But, you know, like I said, the challenge for me, and, you know, I never thought of it that way, you know, because it was Michael and Nikki. And then I always try to make sure that Michael was fine. And, I mean, it was vice. It was reciprocal. But what I'm saying is, like, now it's like, I don't have to say, well, let me check with Michael. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:41] Speaker B: So whatever I feel like doing, I can do, you know, so one of the things I do now is kind of like travel. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:47] Speaker B: Okay, so just travel with some of my girlfriends. We travel. You know, I spend time with my family. My boy, he's in at 16 and driving. So ma, you know, I'll talk to you when I get home, you know, things like that. So, yeah, you know, okay, that's. That's kind of where I'm at now. And just. Just trying to keep praying and being positioned for, you know, the next. [00:54:15] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. So how are you dealing with your grief? Do you have a good support team? [00:54:22] Speaker B: I do. [00:54:23] Speaker A: Good. [00:54:23] Speaker B: I do. I actually have a great therapist. I love her dearly. I tell people, good, good, good. Okay. It's okay. [00:54:34] Speaker A: Tell the people. It's okay. [00:54:36] Speaker B: It's o. To see a therapist or counselor. [00:54:41] Speaker A: You can love the Lord and still have a therapist. There's nothing wrong with it. Yes. [00:54:44] Speaker B: I mean, I love it, you know, just talking. [00:54:47] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:48] Speaker B: Just talking and getting different strategies and affirmations to keep going. Yes. So, you know, like, I do that. One of the things that I have picked up on is I go to the gym. That's kind of like my piece. So I work out. Trying to eat healthier and just tone and be fit. Take care of your body. That's what I do. So those are some of the different things that I've done since Michael has passed. And like I said, just finding out, you know, you don't real Well, I didn't realize, like, you know. Well, I think I like doing this. It's just a whole totally different thing, you know, or you know what? [00:55:40] Speaker A: I didn't really like doing that. [00:55:42] Speaker B: I mean, you know, so. And I can change that up now, you know, so like I said, that's what I've been doing. And just trying to be in positions like Lord, What? You know, what's next, you know, so. [00:55:57] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. So I know you. So we came in and I saw your socks. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:56:03] Speaker A: I was like, ooh, I love your socks. And you said you are a sock girl. Because. [00:56:08] Speaker B: Because Michael was a sock guy. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Sock guy, yeah. So what? And you told me, what do you do now? [00:56:13] Speaker B: So what I do now is share with the people. You know, I have my socks that he has brought for me. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Okay. [00:56:18] Speaker B: But I also wear his. [00:56:20] Speaker A: Wow. [00:56:20] Speaker B: So I'll keep that. That going on. And I mean. And of course, with the Sickle Cell Foundation. Yes. If you can support. Support that. But like I said, yeah, socks. I'll keep that going. And Michael was a fashionable guy, so I think most people knew that. Like, if we had some place to go to a banquet, I just. I was like, micah, I don't think I. Mike could go pick out my dress. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Wow. Really? [00:56:52] Speaker B: Down to the heels. Yes. I mean. And it wasn't. It wasn't to the point where Mike and I don't like that. [00:56:58] Speaker A: Okay. [00:56:58] Speaker B: You know, and most women together. Most women would say, I can't get my husband mine, my blazers. I mean, down to the shoes, down to the dresses. Michael, I can just send him to. I can be at work and he'll call me. He's like, which one of these you like? Because these are two I picked out. And I had no problem. Yeah. I had no problem with him. [00:57:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:22] Speaker B: You know, picking out my dresses. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:57:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:27] Speaker A: So. [00:57:27] Speaker B: But yeah, I. I love socks. Because he. He. How does. How the kids say, put me on game? [00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah, put you on game. Right? [00:57:37] Speaker B: I think they still say that. [00:57:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:41] Speaker A: You gotta stay, you know. Cool. Because. Yeah. They say the wrong thing, they let us know, hey, we're not saying that anymore. Right. So. So you have a good support team. You're seeing a therapist. That's awesome. And just taking care of yourself. Yes. Right. Just taking care of yourself. That's important. And find out who Nikki is. [00:57:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And how they say Finding Nemo. [00:58:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:58:02] Speaker B: That's over. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Like, just. Just finding who Nikki really is. Wow. Yeah. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Okay, so what would you tell another woman who is in this space that you are in, who has lost their husband, who was a pastor? What is something that you would share or something that you've learned or something. Some words of encouragement that you would give to them? [00:58:30] Speaker B: I would say, keep living. And it's okay to be in a silent season. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Ooh, that's good. [00:58:39] Speaker B: It's okay. To be in a silent season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause in your silent season, you can discover who you are and to remain true to yourself. [00:58:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:58:55] Speaker B: Yep. So it's okay to have a silent season. [00:58:59] Speaker A: Mm. That's good. That's good. And that we can use that in all areas of our life. Right. You don't have to be out and talking and sharing, and it's okay. And it's good to have people in your corner that understand that you're in that season. [00:59:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:59:18] Speaker A: And it's okay for this. Sometimes you just need people there. You don't have to talk. [00:59:23] Speaker B: No. [00:59:23] Speaker A: You don't have to say it. Just knowing that you got me, and if I need to talk, I know you're there. But I'm in this season right now, and I just need you to understand that. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:33] Speaker A: Yeah. That's good. Because that end of solid season is when the Lord deals. [00:59:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I. And you can hear because sometimes we're talking to the Lord so much. Lord, I need this. I need that. I want you to do this. And can you do this? And Lord, I'm going through this to the point where he can't even talk. [00:59:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:59:50] Speaker A: We've talked to. You've talked to. You have. I'm sure you've talked to people, and you can't get. You're trying to. Because I. And they are constantly talking. So I think that's how the Lord is with us. Like. Okay, okay, I hear you. [01:00:02] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:02] Speaker A: Now be quiet. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. And that's part of me, like, Nikki, I just need you to be quiet. Just be quiet. Just be quiet. [01:00:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. I know. There's one more point. I wanted to kind of go back in. So at the beginning, you said you were overthinker. You planned. You like to plan. You like to know how everything is going to work out. This wasn't in your plan. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Well, no. And you. [01:00:27] Speaker A: I mean, you knew he had sickle cell. And I'm sure, you know, and we understand that that is an illness. [01:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:33] Speaker A: A chronic illness. But this I'm sure. Well, tell me. What I'm thinking is, you know, you have this plan and you think, you know, we have this life and we gonna do this, this, this, and this. But then he gets sick. [01:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. When I tell you that God walked me through this whole thing. Yeah, he did. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Okay. [01:00:58] Speaker B: He. Most of the time when God talked to me, it's in the shower. Okay. And I'm like, some stuff. Yeah. It's quiet. And, you know, you just kind of like, Just concentrating on you. So it's like when his mom died, that probably was a. It was a great big toll on Michael. [01:01:23] Speaker A: Okay. [01:01:25] Speaker B: And that's. That's kind of when the complications started with the sickle cell. And. And, you know, for our audience, Michael was very good with words. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Okay? [01:01:41] Speaker B: So he told me. He said, nikki, if something ever happened to me, again, some of these talks, he said, if. When I leave here, you know, most people go, say, I died of sickle cell. He said, no. He said, you make sure you tell him I died of complications of sickle cell. He said, because I always had sickle cell, right? He said, so it's complications. So when somebody. I said, no, no, he died of complications. [01:02:02] Speaker A: Complications. [01:02:03] Speaker B: So when the complications started happening, you know, that was more the long stays in the hospital. And then. So when we got kind of to the. To the end, he was kind of in and out. And the last time I got Michael out of the hospital, God didn't tell me when, but he told me. He said, if he goes back in, he ain't coming back out, but he didn't tell me when, right? So we. We did that. I brought him home, and probably within two months, two or three months. I think Michael preached this last sermon in May of 2022. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Okay. [01:02:59] Speaker B: I think May 20th. It's like around that time right before my birthday. [01:03:02] Speaker A: Okay. [01:03:03] Speaker B: And our anniversary. And he had to go. He. He went back in the hospital on May 26th. [01:03:17] Speaker A: Okay. [01:03:19] Speaker B: But that. That was the time when he went back in there. They let him out on. I think it was June 3rd of 2022. Well before June 3rd, because June 3rd was his birthday. [01:03:29] Speaker A: Okay? [01:03:29] Speaker B: So just imagine. And I have. That's a funny joke. My son, myself, and Michael are Geminis. So all the girls at the house is like, all y'all in the house together. I don't know about. [01:03:42] Speaker A: Okay. So I'm a Gemini, and my brother's a Gemini, too. So I can only imagine. [01:03:48] Speaker B: So, yeah, all of us, girl. [01:03:49] Speaker A: Yes. [01:03:51] Speaker B: I mean, our birthday is. Are like, all in one week. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So. [01:03:54] Speaker A: Okay. [01:03:55] Speaker B: So anyway. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Okay. [01:03:56] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's how I kind of know the dates. But then. So he. He went in that time, and then that's when he got out. [01:04:02] Speaker A: Okay. [01:04:02] Speaker B: And that's when God. When I was picking him up, God spoke to me. He's like, if you go back in, Nikki, he's not coming back out. So I heard a voice, but you know how you hear. And it's like, lord, I don't want to talk about that. Today. Not today, Lord, not today. So we got out and. But before he went in that time, Michael's never going in on my birthday or anniversary. He's always been out of the hospital. But this time he was in there on our anniversary, my birthday. And so. But before he went in, my son had his eighth grade promotion ceremony. [01:04:41] Speaker A: Okay. [01:04:42] Speaker B: And so before that date, Michael, you know, he wasn't feeling well. But he told me, he said, well, I'm gonna see Rodney graduate. And my mind, I was like. I was like, okay, Lord. What he meant by that? Cause he ain't feeling well. And then he. But he also just said, graduate. And he said, graduate. So in my mind, I'm trying to put it that mean he gonna be here for graduation. Cause this eighth grade promotion, you know, I was trying to. I was trying to just detail that thing, you know, like, you know, so when he said that, and I kept that in my mind. And then, of course, like I said, he went in the hospital. And then when I went to pick him up, that's when God said, if you go back in, he come back out. So I was like, okay. And like I said, okay, Lord, I hear you. But I was also in my mind saying, but Micah told me graduation. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:35] Speaker B: So he said graduation. [01:05:36] Speaker A: She said, graduation. [01:05:37] Speaker B: So that means. Right, you know, rise, getting high school, graduation. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:41] Speaker B: And so, you know, left it like that. And then Michael had his birthday. His birthday is June 3rd. [01:05:49] Speaker A: Okay. [01:05:50] Speaker B: So we were home, and then I had to take him back June 7th. So I knew what God told me. [01:06:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:01] Speaker B: I put it in the back of my mind. And so we went there, and he was there for 30 days. So 30 days, I walked him to the hospital every single day. [01:06:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:12] Speaker B: And then he passed on July 7th. And before he. Before he passed, probably about a week before he passed, he called me one night about 11 o'clock and asked me could I come to the hospital. Never done that before. [01:06:33] Speaker A: Okay. [01:06:34] Speaker B: Never. And so I was like, okay. So you all right? He said, yeah, I'm okay. So I went up there and. Because I told my daughter, I said, I'll be back. I'm going to the hospital. She said, why are you going this late? I said, you know, you want me to come up there? I said, I don't know. And I was like, you know, just trying to just think of it as a normal day. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:58] Speaker B: Or a normal thing. So I went up there and when I got there, he was asleep. I always take my laptop because that. My MacBook, my workbook, it kept me busy. [01:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:09] Speaker B: It kept me busy. I probably used to work, maybe doing work for work. Probably about 15, 16 hours, I would leave from home. I meant from work. And come back home. Cause when I was doing dialysis, that's what I would do. [01:07:25] Speaker A: Okay. [01:07:25] Speaker B: Just to keep my mind just kind of occupied, like, you know, health declining. But I'm gonna just keep. I'm gonna keep going. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:07:34] Speaker B: So anyway, went there, and he was sleeping. I came in, I said, you sleep? And he was like, no, I'm up. He got up. And then. So I got on my MacBook because he went back to sleep. I probably stayed about two hours. And then I said, well, I'm gonna go ahead and leave and get some sleep, and I'll be back in the morning. So I gave him a kiss, and then he told me. He said, nikki, I love you. And I said, I love you, too. And when I came back the next morning, he wasn't talking that much. So then they moved him to, you know, I see you. So that was the last. That was the last thing he said to me. [01:08:20] Speaker A: Wow. [01:08:22] Speaker B: Then. So. So, like I said, it's. It. As far as not expecting that, I can't say, because, you know. You know, there were nights, and even, like, after that, I think it was two weeks later in the shower, getting in bed, because, you know, you don't know whether you go get a call. So I went sleeping, you know, just kind of tossing the turn. I had my phone right there. And so that's kind of when it was like God said, nikki, there's nothing else you can do. You, not me. You've done all you can do. There's nothing else you can do. And so it was kind of like, you know, I still have faith. I was even to the point, too, where I wanted to go talk to the funeral home. But then I was like, if I do, that's my faith wavering, right? So I was like, I'm not going just to kind of see where things were as far as, like, do I have enough? You know. You know, where. Where would I be? [01:09:39] Speaker A: I was planning you. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Yes. So I was like, so. But during that time, I couldn't. I was like, because, Lord, if I go, then I'm saying that you can't do. I don't trust you. So I didn't go. [01:09:51] Speaker A: Okay? [01:09:51] Speaker B: I didn't go. And then one July 7th, that morning, I had got a call from the. From the doctor, and he was like, you know, Ms. Spears, you know, there's nothing else that. You know, that those words. There's Nothing else I can do. [01:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:14] Speaker B: And I told him, I said, thank you, doctor. I said, but you weren't doing it anyway, right? I appreciate your. Your practice. I mean, not that, you know, but I'm just saying you. You weren't. It was. It was God that was keeping him here. And I said, so I pre. I thank you for everything. And, you know, and so he said, you coming up here? And I said, yes, sir, I'll be. I'll be there in a little bit. I was already dressed when the doctor called me. He called me about seven, but I was already dressed. And then the nurse called me probably about 8:00, and she was asking me when I was going to come up there. And I told her, you know, I'll be there. I was taking my time that day. And I called my aunt and told her, you know, let's go by the funeral home before I go there. [01:11:04] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:05] Speaker B: So I went by the funeral home then and, you know, talked. And he said, you're good. And so when I was at the funeral home, the nurse called me again. She said, Ms. Spears, you know, when you come in, I was like, I'm right around the corner, I'll be there. And so it was kind of like, you know, we got there, I walked in, I had my head up, I was like, you know, what's going to be. It's going to be God, you know, so we going to go in here together. And so I went in there and then she, you know, she asked can she take the, you know, the medications off of. And I told her yes. Never been in that situation, so I didn't know what to expect. So I didn't call my kids or anything. I just didn't know. [01:11:54] Speaker A: You didn't know. [01:11:55] Speaker B: And so. And she took the message. You know, they don't really say anything this last. Can they take it off? You know, so I didn't know, you know, this was where we were going. Yeah, I didn't. And so she, you know, she took all the medicines off of him and probably within 15 minutes he took his last breath. And so I told him I had it from here. [01:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:12:33] Speaker B: So that's where it was. [01:12:35] Speaker A: And so that's again, going back to y'all had the conversations. You knew what he wanted, and that's the strength. And like you say, God, you did everything you could do. And it was in God's hand. Yeah, it was in God's hand. And even in those moments, you have to remember that even through that, all is well. Yeah, all Is. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we can plan, we can try to have all the thoughts. And we're gonna do this and we do that. But at the end of the day, it's. God is in control. [01:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's. [01:13:08] Speaker A: Once we learn how to trust him again. Then I'm not gonna say it's gonna be easy, but it's doable. We're able to get through it. He's right there with us. [01:13:18] Speaker B: Right. And whatever. Whatever it is, you know, we. We look at different situations. [01:13:24] Speaker A: Like. [01:13:24] Speaker B: I don't know if I can handle that. I said don't say that. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Don't say that. [01:13:27] Speaker B: Because you don't know what God's gonna bring your way above. I mean, and if he bring you to it and you really trust God, you gonna make it now? Are you gonna cry? Absolutely. Absolutely. Are you gonna hurt? Absolutely. Are you gonna be mad? Absolutely. [01:13:47] Speaker A: Yes, you are. Yes, you are. You're gonna go through all those things, all those emotions. [01:13:51] Speaker B: But at the end of the day, you gotta trust God. [01:13:58] Speaker A: And he's still good. Yes, yes, yes. [01:14:00] Speaker B: And he works everything out for our. [01:14:02] Speaker A: Good, for our good, for our good. Yes, he does. [01:14:05] Speaker B: We might not see us, and that's what we have to do. We have to stop getting glasses. [01:14:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:11] Speaker B: And trying to see things with our own eyes. Just trust the process. [01:14:17] Speaker A: Right. [01:14:18] Speaker B: Because just like that wall is up, there's probably much more on the other side. But you gotta trust God to get you over there. [01:14:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:14:29] Speaker B: Just be in position. [01:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah, Just be in position. That's awesome. [01:14:33] Speaker B: Just be in position. [01:14:34] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that's a good place. Oh, I love it. Ooh, that gave me chills. Just be in position. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I thank you for coming and hanging out with me on the second row today. You have inspired me. I'm sure you've inspired many others that are out there watching. That's just going through, not just loss, but wherever they may be right now. You know, again, you just have to trust God and all that. Yes. Where we are and we can't see our way. [01:15:02] Speaker B: Right. [01:15:03] Speaker A: Even with the glasses on. [01:15:04] Speaker B: Right. [01:15:05] Speaker A: You can't see your way. But just knowing that God is in control. Yes. And there's nothing too hard for him if we just continue to trust Him. Yeah. So real quick, I ended with some. What are your favorites? So kind of on a lighter note, what is your favorite vacation spot? Because you like to travel now. So where. [01:15:28] Speaker B: Yeah, so far, my favorite vacation spot is where we go. I like San Antonio, Texas. [01:15:39] Speaker A: Really? [01:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:40] Speaker A: Haven't been there. It's hot. [01:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [01:15:43] Speaker A: But you enjoyed it. [01:15:44] Speaker B: We enjoyed it. [01:15:45] Speaker A: Okay. [01:15:45] Speaker B: We enjoyed it. I like that spot. [01:15:47] Speaker A: Okay. [01:15:47] Speaker B: I like that. And then second place would be. Where did we go? Tennessee. What part? [01:15:56] Speaker A: In the mountains. [01:15:58] Speaker B: No, in the mountains. [01:15:59] Speaker A: Okay. [01:15:59] Speaker B: It wasn't in the mountains. Oh, God. I can't remember the place I went, but. Yeah, but I like. I like Texas, though. I like. Okay, I like Texas. We just visit Texas, but. Oh, I like. I like out there. I like the people. [01:16:12] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:12] Speaker B: So it was fun being good. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Good, good, good. What's your favorite food? Favorite meal? Favorite type of food? [01:16:21] Speaker B: My favorite meal. Well, I don't eat meat. [01:16:24] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:24] Speaker B: So let's see. I love cabbage. [01:16:30] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:30] Speaker B: So I would have to say, like, you know, vegetables. [01:16:33] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:33] Speaker B: So. [01:16:33] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I don't eat meat. [01:16:35] Speaker A: Okay. How long have you been on that journey? [01:16:37] Speaker B: Two years. [01:16:38] Speaker A: Really? [01:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:40] Speaker A: Cool, cool, cool. So what's your favorite movie? [01:16:44] Speaker B: Loving basketball. [01:16:45] Speaker A: Really? Because you're basketball. [01:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Loving basketball. It's gonna always be really. [01:16:50] Speaker A: Okay, I know your favorite scripture. Do you have a favorite actress? [01:16:57] Speaker B: Not necessarily. [01:16:59] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Favorite place to shop. [01:17:03] Speaker B: Favorite place to shop. I got different ones. [01:17:09] Speaker A: Really? Okay, what are some. Well, give us a few of them then. [01:17:12] Speaker B: So, I mean, of course. Belt. [01:17:14] Speaker A: Belt. Right. [01:17:16] Speaker B: And then I like. I like Talbot. [01:17:20] Speaker A: Really? [01:17:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:21] Speaker A: Okay. [01:17:21] Speaker B: Every now and then, you know, if Michael was here, I'd be there a whole lot, but. [01:17:24] Speaker A: Okay. [01:17:26] Speaker B: But I mean, I like that. I'm trying to think of another one. TJ Mac. [01:17:31] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotta like TJ Maxx. Yeah. Okay. So you giving advice to those who may have lost their husband. So what would you advice would you give to a new first lady husband just became pastor or has been a pastor, let's say a year or so. And they're still trying to figure all this out. [01:17:57] Speaker B: What. [01:17:58] Speaker A: What advice would you give to them? [01:17:59] Speaker B: I have to give them them the same advice that was given to me that's, you know, don't change who you are. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:18:06] Speaker B: Don't change who you are. [01:18:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:18:08] Speaker B: And I think I've told Michael and I have been to pastors pastoral installations. [01:18:13] Speaker A: Okay. [01:18:14] Speaker B: And so I'll tell, you know, whispering. Especially if they're young, I tell them, don't change who you are. That you'll know me knowing your yes mean yes. [01:18:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. Great advice. Great advice. Well, again, I thank you for joining me today. It has been awesome. [01:18:28] Speaker B: Yes. [01:18:28] Speaker A: It's been very good conversation. And I thank you for just being who you are. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [01:18:35] Speaker B: Thank you for inviting me. [01:18:37] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. And also, too, I gotta let you guys know this is a song shout out to Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. Yes, yes, yes. So again, I thank you and thank you too, for joining us today on the second row. It has been an honor to speak with Mrs. Spears. Mrs. First Lady. You're still gonna be First Lady, Mrs. Spears. And I thank you again for joining us. So please remember to join us. You can catch us on YouTube as well as all platforms, podcast platforms, Apple, Spotify. Wherever you get your podcast, make sure you tell someone about us and just share, share the goodness. I hope you've gotten some good tidbits. I know I have to encourage me on this journey. And again, as I end, always, no matter where you are, no matter where you find yourself, remember to accept it, embrace it, and flourish in it. Thank you. We see you next time.