Breaking the Silence: Understanding and Confronting Domestic Violence

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to Second Row Conversations Podcast. I'm Letitia, also known as Lady P. And I'm excited that you decided to join me today. Today is a very special day. I have a special guest. Her name is Dawn Dawson. I said it, right? [00:00:36] Speaker A: That's correct. [00:00:36] Speaker B: All right, thank you. And today we are talking about a very sensitive subject, but one that is very prevalent in our community, in our state, in our world. And I wanted to make sure that we talk about it today. October, as we know, it's always recognized as Breast Cancer Awareness Month, but it is also known as Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And so today I wanted to have Ms. Dawson on so that we can talk about domestic violence and all that goes along with it. And she and I were talking earlier, and the one thing she told me was that it is a lot of layers that go. That goes with domestic violence. And so we are going to try to keep it within a certain time frame because there's so much that goes along with it. We've actually were talking early, and it got really, really good. So I'm excited about this conversation, and I hope that you will gain something from it. If you or someone you know is dealing with. Dealing with this currently or have dealt with this, please know that there are resources available. We are here to make sure that you know that that someone is here to help you. And so we wanted to make sure that we give you the information, talk about it, let you know that you're not alone. And so that's what this episode is about today. So thank you for joining us. Get. Get comfortable. Have a notebook, get you some tea, some coffee, and. And let's talk. All right, so again, thank you for joining me on today. I appreciate you joining me and being with. With us on today. [00:02:16] Speaker A: So. [00:02:19] Speaker B: So tell me. Tell, tell. Tell us a little bit about who you are. How did you start working with domestic violence? [00:02:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:30] Speaker B: In. In this area. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yes. All right. So I've always been in the human services field. Oh, excuse me. However, it's been one of those things where every job always has different facets to it. If you're a case manager, in some point, you're doing. When you're speaking up for people, you're. [00:02:47] Speaker B: You're. [00:02:48] Speaker A: You're trying to make sure you're putting the services in place and connecting them. That has always been advocacy. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:53] Speaker A: So that is connecting it. So I've always been an advocate in every line of work that I've done, whether it been case management, you know, law enforcement, some kind of facet. So I've really started volunteering with a friend of mine from college with the rape crisis center. And she really needed some volunteer advocates. And I was like, advocate, what would you need me to do? So start volunteering with rape rape kids as a victim advocate. A lot of those where we, we break down a. Domestic violence is from intimate partner violence. So that's what that intimate partner violence with the rapes or the sexual assaults were more prevalent in college campuses and with high school students. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:39] Speaker A: So what was the. The rain and bell was this domestic violence facet? And it's. So I said there's so many layers to that onion because it's always trauma is a trauma and is a trauma based thing and it cycles and it goes on. It's perpetuated through some generations. So as I've been pretty much, I want to say 20 years. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Wow. [00:04:01] Speaker A: But really, it. Since I've been a certified victim service provider, it's been since 2016. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:08] Speaker A: So I've been doing that in this area pre conviction. I've seen every facet of it pre conviction and postconviction. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:15] Speaker A: So I can know the different roles, the different how every court facet works, from family court to probate court to criminal court, to try to help victims navigate the system. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So tell me, what are some misconceptions that you think are out there about domestic violence? [00:04:35] Speaker A: The misconception is that one of the biggest things is the victim blaming. Why don't they just leave when really it's the most dangerous thing for a victim to do is leave. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:46] Speaker A: The most dangerous thing. That's the last piece of advice as a victim service provider that I would give. I will actually put a plan in place to help try to figure out. To navigate the leaving if that's necessary. But a lot of times victims don't want to leave. They love this person. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:01] Speaker A: They want to stay and they want to work through the issues with the person. So we have batteries, intervention programs that help not only the offender, but they help the victim and that offender navigate remaining together. Yes. There's a lot of things out there. It's not anger management. That's not proven help the, the offenders. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:24] Speaker A: But another. The biggest thing is that everyone thinks domestic violence is just a hit and the punching, the stabbing, and it's not. [00:05:31] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:32] Speaker A: There's a cycle of. A cycle of power and control that is deeper in it. And it could be. It can navigate from financial to emotional to mental to the fear and doubt, shame, guilt. I can go on and on all Day long. But it doesn't look like what people think it looks like. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Okay. So it's not just the black eye or the string. It's like you said, financial. So that is, I am controlling the money, and I tell you how much you can pay or how much you can spend or I'm in the. I control. I. I am in control of everything that goes with the family, the friends who you can hang around and things. So all of that kind of falls under the. Under the domestic violence. [00:06:16] Speaker A: If I don't wear a skirt that's longer than my knee, I know my husband is going to flip. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Wow. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Later. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:21] Speaker A: That's a form of power and control. Now, there's a difference between, you know, couples need to communicate respect and, you know, different things. But that can be. That's a red flag because then what that turns into health. Young women with all these autoimmune diseases, all these different things that transcends your body internally. So we don't see the bruised eyes on the outside. Is some other stuff going on internally. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Okay. So that turns into the stress. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:50] Speaker B: And the, the physical ailments that, like you said, autoimmune. All these other things that could possibly be going on, that's all that comes with the domestic violence that's going on. Because it's not necessarily physical. It could be emotional. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker B: It could be verbal, all of those things. [00:07:10] Speaker A: It sounds so awful to say domestic violence, which what it is, but people don't want to hear it. They don't want to channel that. Because a lot of times people think, well, maybe I'm playing a part in this. Yeah. Like, maybe. Okay, I know he's going to be mad if I wear this skirt that comes above my knee. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:28] Speaker A: But, you know, I've gained a little bit of weight and I don't have any more clothes. Maybe I should have told. This can keep going on and on. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:35] Speaker A: And you're creating a fire inside of you. But when you create a fire inside of you to keep the peace, and you're still just lighting it, match after match, you're the one that's going to be in the flames. And a lot of times your partner doesn't even know. [00:07:49] Speaker B: Hey. [00:07:49] Speaker A: When you could really communicate it. Like, hey, this makes me feel this way. It's just the cycle is eliminating the cycle. But it's domestic violence. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Whenever you don't get to the root of it. [00:08:01] Speaker B: So. Okay. So it's important to have the communication. [00:08:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:06] Speaker B: And understanding. So is it a cycle, do you think domestic violence Is a cycle. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Oh, it's okay. [00:08:13] Speaker B: Like. Like, is it. I saw my. My dad do it to my mom, and so now I do it because that's all I saw. That's all I know. Do. Do you think that's a cycle? Do you? What. Do you think it's a choice? What. What are your thoughts on that? [00:08:27] Speaker A: There's traumas, okay? So therefore, there could be two sides to that coin. The one side could be, I saw my dad abusing my mom. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Okay? [00:08:35] Speaker A: The second one could be my mom was a single mom. I hate her now. I hate women because I didn't get the Jordans when I was growing up. You know, she. I saw her having different boyfriends. None of them helped us anyway. You know, I just don't respect her at all. I don't even. I'm not gonna call my mom. I'm not even gonna say anything to her at all. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Okay? [00:08:53] Speaker A: Like, I don't like her at all. But now something in me. I love women. I'm attracted to women. But now, you know, the cycle can come because now you're still. You haven't. And I. And I'm. I'm sorry, man. I'm not trying to just bash y' all right now. I'm gonna get to the women. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Right? [00:09:08] Speaker A: This can go both ways. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:09:11] Speaker A: So now I want this person because I have the mommy issues. I want this person to nurture me that. I never had that nurturing before. She's not nurturing to me. I want her to nurture me this way. I want this. So it can be because they hate their mom or because they saw their dad's doing this. And sometimes, and I hate to say this, it's just cause and effect. Some people come from really good households where people have taught them well, but they're just deciding to make some really poor choices. Yeah. Because we've cushioned. We've cushioned it for so too long. You know, he's depressed. He's. He or she's depressed. You know, And a lot of times where we do have victims of different facets, and that's April for a whole another month, we talk about promiscuity and stuff that can stem from a trauma of childhood sexual assault. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:03] Speaker A: It's not just these fast little girls. It is just everything is a. [00:10:07] Speaker B: A. [00:10:08] Speaker A: A unresolved trauma. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:10] Speaker A: That people are really just projecting onto someone else. [00:10:13] Speaker B: Right. So that is the abuser. So what about the one that's being abused now? [00:10:19] Speaker A: The victims. [00:10:20] Speaker B: The victims, yeah. [00:10:20] Speaker A: There's so many resources out there because people don't even realize that they're. They're not alone right now. There's a fear and there's also too because I may depend on this person for financial security. That's the biggest piece on it, you know. Well, I don't really have anybody else. This is all I know. Then the next thing is that, you know I'm really in danger and I need to go, but where do I go? And there is a lot of help out here. There are emergency safe shelters where there are post everywhere you would go. Especially in this area with the PD coalition. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:55] Speaker A: There are little peel off tabs. You could even get advocacy without it being a crime. You don't have to report it to law enforcement. If you are going through domestic violence at home you can get some advocacy from an advocate. From a domestic violence advocate. You can get therapy, trauma. Trauma therapy. To have the therapist at these domestic violence centers. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Wow. [00:11:17] Speaker A: That can help you. But a lot of people don't do it because you know what? I'm staying with them. But you can do it and still stay with him or her. [00:11:25] Speaker B: So you're saying that you can get the assistance that you need and still be in the home. Yes, but still be getting that. Really? So you don't necessarily have to leave. [00:11:35] Speaker A: No. Now there's a difference. If the judge orders that then you do have to go through the solicitor's office. Okay. And everything to get those things removed. But people petition the court all the time to remove the orders of protection order. Protection orders. [00:11:48] Speaker B: Really? [00:11:48] Speaker A: It's very common. It's a very, very common thing. [00:11:51] Speaker B: And do you think that's because they are trying to make it work or they're are afraid? What, what are your thoughts? [00:11:59] Speaker A: A lot of times they have children in common. [00:12:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:02] Speaker A: They have children in common. So they want to. And I'm, I'm going. It's a law on this. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Give me guys. And I'm fine because I just had a training with this in the last week. [00:12:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:15] Speaker A: Where we actually is across the process of going through removing the, the remove the order of protection or the protection order. It has to go back before the judge now. And a lot of people are not ashamed to do it because you know what they start, they start on the, the conviction side. You know what? They start to feel that oh my God, this is my fault. I wouldn't be going through this now. This person may have lost their job because it's a felony. They feel not my fault. I feel they feel guilty now to help him out or, you know, you, it could have been an isolated incident, you know, but the judge could have felt like for the protection of you, I'm going to separate you now when you're going to these, these hearings to get the orders of protection, you know, removed, a judge is going to want to know what has been done in the meantime. Has it been drug and alcohol? Okay, has there been any mental health counseling? Has there been batters intervention? Have you guys done therapy together? You know, and so I haven't seen anywhere they, they reinstate, they say like, you know, we're going to reinstate it, but they try, okay. But it looks very different. And I, and I'm going to say this again. We say domestic violence and people hate to say domestic violence because he's not hitting me. So it's not domestic violence. Well, you know, he may have just grabbed my hand, but, you know, he didn't punch me, you know, or he just snatched a paper out of my hand. Every time I get the mail, I can't touch the mailbox. That's, you know, I can't, I don't have the password to the bank account. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:49] Speaker A: I don't, you know, every time I have to do anything concerning the children, I have to run it by him first. So it gets outside of the, what it looks like, excuse me, of being hit, being punched, being slapped. [00:14:03] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:04] Speaker A: It's, and it's just always. Well, nobody told us, Nobody told us. She didn't tell us that she was going through this. She did. She gets, she starts leaving at 5 o' clock every day to go back home because he doesn't want her out. He doesn't want her on her phone. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:21] Speaker A: You know, you may call your sister with a spaghetti recipe at 8pm but her husband doesn't let her answer the phone after 8. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Right. Or when it's a family gathering, she can't come or he can't come, or if there's a family gathering, she has to leave at a certain time because, yeah, he doesn't allow her to be out past a certain time or it's checking the odometer on the car. Like those are things, those, those are all that all falls under that umbrella of domestic violence. But because domestic violence has such a connotative, it has such a bad. Yes look on it. People think that's just the physical, but it's so much deeper than that. [00:15:00] Speaker A: And this is where I'm glad you jumped on that. Instead of us trying to find a solution of leaving, we have to start supporting who we think is being victimized. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:12] Speaker A: So if, you know, your sister may not have. Or your cousin or your friend, you know, she can't eat until, you know, she gets money from him to eat. You know, she's like, you know, hey, everybody's getting their coffee, maybe in a group chat. Well, I gotta wait for him to send me my money. Well, you know, a little support is. You know what, I'm gonna buy your call. [00:15:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:31] Speaker A: A little bit. It's. A little bit can go a long way. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:35] Speaker A: You know what? You're not. You don't have to stay home today. I got your gas, so I'll come and pick you up. You know, tell me, can I come and pick you up or, you know, which way do you want me to send you some gas money? [00:15:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:45] Speaker A: Or, you know, hey, I'll come over if you're over there. She's stressed, do the dishes, you know. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:52] Speaker A: Instead of the, oh, he got two hands, you know, or he can do it. It's so easy. Maybe his sister likes nurturing and caring for. But now she's just a little up in arms. Because he's gonna be home at 8 and I don't have time to do all of this. [00:16:06] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:16:06] Speaker A: So it's a little bit. Find out how you can support. Support a victim through it. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:10] Speaker A: And eventually, since that is the end goal, we all want our loved ones to leave an offender or somebody who is abusing them in any way, shape or form. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:20] Speaker A: But the only way they can get there is with that support. [00:16:23] Speaker B: That's right. [00:16:24] Speaker A: They don't have the support. So that's why people stay. When everybody say, why do victims stay? They stay because they don't have your support. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. So even if, you know, even if they have felt comfortable enough sharing with you that this is going on, it may not be the right time to say you need to leave. It may just be, what can I do to help you? [00:16:45] Speaker A: You? [00:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that may be the question. [00:16:47] Speaker A: And you know, nobody's going to tell me. Nobody's going to tell me they're going through. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Right. I can, I can notice. [00:16:53] Speaker B: You can notice things if you notice little things. If you notice that she's nervous when he's little things, then you're right. What can I then? Then you can just do the something to help if you notice, like you said, they don't have the money for coffee and everybody's getting coffee. Okay, then buy them the coffee. Just little things. If you know that maybe one day they're going to Leave. Then maybe you putting a couple of dollars aside to maybe that when they do leave and they need that extra. This keeps coming in my mind, y'. All. And don't, don't judge me. One of my favorite movie is what what's Love Got to Do With It? That's one of my favorite movies. And I just remember when Tina Turner was trying to leave and she left and her mama called Ike and told him where they were and she was so distraught because her own mama told where they were. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yes. And then it's another. The biggest thing too is that was that. That's the case that we're talking about couples. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:56] Speaker A: We're leaving out that domestic violence covers when people have children in common. Right. That aren't together. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:03] Speaker A: That there's power and control with the children. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:06] Speaker A: You can never get along for the children. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:08] Speaker A: And then this. And then on the flip side, it's the, the mothers are the perpetuators of that domestic violence. But as the men. Men can't be victims in their mind because they're masculine. They, they have to take the back seat. She. They're going back and forth because I'm not a victim here. [00:18:27] Speaker B: And really you are. [00:18:29] Speaker A: They're. They're feeding into that. That cycle that's perpetuating from the. Using the children as pawns. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:34] Speaker A: If you don't Pay me this $68 by Friday, you're not getting this child. And guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to yell at you. I'm gonna call you a deadbeat. I'm gonna do all of that in front. That is domestic violence. People don't even know you can call. That is a, that is a report. You can call law enforcement, let them do their investigation on what it is. They'll assess the text messages and you can literally text someone and say, do not text or call my phone unless it's about school medical, the financial support or dropping off and picking up. And if you leave it at that, you don't have to be called any kind of vulgar names. You don't have to be, well, if you're not there by 5:30, well, maybe he got a flat tire, you know, and, you know, the things that can happen. But, but it's so much rage and so much fire. There's no grace giv at all. And that is the biggest elephant I, I have not even really been seeing a lot of the unreported domestic violence is all of these. The. The people that have children in common. [00:19:38] Speaker B: Wow. [00:19:38] Speaker A: And The. The dads are. The dads may have wives, they may have girlfriends, and. But the dads are still victims of the domestic violence. [00:19:46] Speaker B: But they don't see it as. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Don't see it as that. [00:19:49] Speaker B: Because domestic violence, in their mind, is the physical. It's the beating. Is that. But that. That happens. [00:19:55] Speaker A: And what happens. [00:19:56] Speaker B: That's the control. That's the control. [00:19:57] Speaker A: And what happens is. And I could just speak, just from my experience in the black community, is that we will. It's just. You got to mind your business. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:07] Speaker A: You got to mind your business. They got those kids. You got to stay out of that business. You got to stay out of it. But you know somebody. No. Who's going to ever. Nobody can ever say, you stop. That is wrong. Don't do that. And then we let this person. Everybody can justify and justify. Well, I do this because he only pays me $22 for these three kids. Tell the judge that. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Yeah, let them handle. Let them handle that. Right. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Then. Then we get into the point where it's like a back, back and forth where the men kind of, like, fold because it's so easy to get put on child support, but they have to fight for visitation. That's a whole different court sector. Yeah, they have to do it. And it's really. It's not as hard of a process as many people think it is, but in their mind, and you can even see on social media, somebody saying, well, I shouldn't have to do xyz, but they are putting the hand in the cycle of violence. The. The domestic violence. Let me say that. [00:21:07] Speaker B: Wow. [00:21:07] Speaker A: By saying, well, is the back and forth, the tit for tat, and nothing is solution focused. [00:21:14] Speaker B: And I think that's where we need to get to is the solution focus. How. What is the solution? How can we get to a solution to make it better for the children? Yeah, Right. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Start with what's working well. [00:21:25] Speaker B: What's working well? [00:21:26] Speaker A: We're working well. The kids are healthy. You start with all the pop. You might not have nothing positive to say about each other. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:31] Speaker A: The kids are healthy. You know, the kids, you know, are. They can manage themselves. [00:21:36] Speaker B: They. [00:21:37] Speaker A: They are doing pretty good with behavior of, you know what the lights are on. Those can be positives. Then you get the concerns. The concerns is we argue every weekend with dropping off and picking up time. How can that be? And then you got to have a solution for that problem. Each concern. Okay, so if you and I are arguing, maybe we don't need to talk. Maybe we need to text. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Okay, now the text is getting out of control. We going back and forth. Okay, maybe we need to get a mediator. So let's go to court. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Why should I go to court? You want a solution or do you want to keep this? [00:22:09] Speaker B: Do you want to keep. [00:22:10] Speaker A: And that's domestic violence. Violence. And no one wants to talk about that piece. And it's like, okay, I. I just saw on what social media, like a couple weeks ago on Face a Facebook post, someone posted, I shouldn't have to fight for my kids. Xyz. And you know, and I literally just said, well, what can we do to stop this? And they said, what can we do to stop this? And I said, have children in wedlock. And then it was like, and I'm an unmarried person. I have never been married. But you can eliminate all of your problems when you want to argue about custody and visitation. Have children in wedlock. [00:22:46] Speaker B: That would help. Yeah. [00:22:48] Speaker A: So it's like I don't have any rights. Well, marry a woman. Okay. [00:22:54] Speaker B: And then have children. That would. That's the solution. But in the meantime, I'm an unmarried. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Single mother, by the way, saying that that's accountability. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:02] Speaker A: If I didn't know what came along with that, you know, you gotta kinda just find a solution. Solutions through the navigate. Absolutely, absolutely. So it's the back and forth is the justification. And then there are victims that or people can be a victim once. And you don't want to maintain a victim. I really don't, you know, call my victims victims unless it's on paper with. They have to be. But they're survivors. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:25] Speaker A: And then people, you know, you. Because they're finding ways to navigate and through it. But people have a victimization as their personality, it becomes a part of them. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Wow. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Is the woe is me. And I hate to sound insensitive, but it's like it's anything. It's like a You. The glass half full, glass half empty. You've seen the illustration with someone looking. They're on the same bus. Someone looking out the right side, they see the sun. Someone looking at the left side, they see the sad. The. The clouds and the rain try to seek that sun. I don't know how hard the sun may be gleaming in your eyes. You got to look towards the sun. And it's easier said than done. It's work all day, every day. But people is like, okay, I've. I've had this. Everybody felt sorry for me. I got this. This whole. Because, you know, we did call the police, you know, this situation happened. But now I got to go to Facebook every time now because I need to tell them, yeah, I need to tell somebody. You can call an anonymous number for victim advocacy. Literally. I'm not telling you to just to minimize it, but it becomes a part of your identity. You may need to get some trauma informed therapy, not counseling, you know, nothing, no shade to counselors, but that's. You need to get to the root of that trauma on why you keep going back to this, this, this victimization and to try to move forward with it for a solution. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Right, right, right. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree. And kind of go back to what the single parent. I, I remember because before my husband and I got married, we had our daughter and that was one thing my dad was like, listen, don't get the courts all in all y' all business. Y' all figure. Y', all, y' all figure it out. [00:25:11] Speaker A: Y' all figure it out. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Y' all figure it out. You, y', all, you don't have to worry about. Try not to get on child support and all. Y' all figure it out. And that's what we ended up doing. We figured it out and we ended up getting married. But we had to figure it out. We had to figure it out. [00:25:24] Speaker A: It was hard, but to navigate. [00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah, you had. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So faith communities, I wanted to talk about that. How, how can faith communities become safe space, safer spaces for people that are dealing with, that are in domestic violence situations, whether it's the physical, emotional, psychological. How can faith communities, and I want. [00:25:55] Speaker A: To give some credit to South Carolina Victim Assistance Network. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:59] Speaker A: They actually have a faith based sector. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:03] Speaker A: And if you go to the, the website, you can even go to SC Levus, SC lever S C as in South Carolina L E V A. And there's a whole slew of resources up there. But that was my toughest population to go through when I was pre conviction victim advocacy for a nonprofit. [00:26:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:23] Speaker A: To do that was the toughest crowd to do a domestic violence presentation for and to have brochures. And it was literally me being a advocate coming in and getting the scripture used towards me for being like a cat, like an antagonist, like really. And then I had like someone training. And I remember this was a, this was a church and it was in backwoods. I just remember pulling out sheets and there I didn't understand what was going on. But I think the discussion sparked emotions. And then there's different types of churches. [00:27:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:06] Speaker A: And I think, you know, there was the prophet had, you know, kind of read Something So you gotta kind of know in the faith base, it's like you don't know what to expect, what is appropriate for me to say, because this may just turn into. Now we're not even in the. The presentation anymore. [00:27:26] Speaker B: This has turned into turning to lock. [00:27:28] Speaker A: The doors, get the children out. And I was like, open the Bible. I'm from Philadelphia, but I. South Carolina. So I kind of knew. But then I was like, whoa, I've never seen this in person. But then there was a lot of prayer stuff going on. And then after I left, you know, just that one situation, I realized, you know, someone broke it down to me that that person that was in a domestic violence relationship, there has been undercover molestation in that family and everything. So they were trying to get to the root of all of that stuff, the faith base. So that being said, so that. [00:28:03] Speaker B: Wait, let's go back. So you were trying to do a presentation. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:06] Speaker B: And it turned into a whole. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Turned into spiritual. Spiritual. Yes. I don't want to know. I don't want to say they were removing, but I know they put white sheets out to move some stuff. And you couldn't leave out. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Get the children out. Casting out some demons. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Casting out the demons. So yeah, there was speaking in tongues and a lot of different things. So I think you just need to understand which church you're going into, what you want. But what I think it will work with the faith based. You got to get through the head. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:35] Speaker A: And the. The head a lot of times will be the. The first lading pastor. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:41] Speaker A: So I advise going through them. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Next. So that way, train the. As an advocate to train the. [00:28:49] Speaker B: The. [00:28:49] Speaker A: I think that the church needs to have the training on it. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:53] Speaker A: So that way people can come to them. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:28:55] Speaker A: And in. In faith and in confidence. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:58] Speaker A: And to not let us have the solutions for the victims. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:05] Speaker A: For the victims to have their own solutions in the res. The resources to get them to a solution. If that's what safety. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Calls for. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Because the. The. The key, the number one risk factor is leaving. Leaving. Why doesn't she just leave? Why doesn't he just leave you at the greatest risk of homicide or suicide or suicide homicide when you just leave. [00:29:34] Speaker B: Why do you think that's the case? [00:29:36] Speaker A: And right now, statistically, there's fear and shame. There's now a lot of times when that happens. There has been numerous domestic violence attempts. There's been threats. There's been all kind of stuff. And a lot of times what those. Those cases are prominent Members and families, prominent members and communities. People who have successful businesses, who have something to lose, per se and is no one else can know or that I don't. If I can't have you, nobody else will. You can't leave me. [00:30:12] Speaker B: You cannot. [00:30:13] Speaker A: We're going together. And most recently I've heard someone say they literally took the till death do us part into their own hands. [00:30:25] Speaker B: So that's why you see a lot of murder suicides. [00:30:27] Speaker A: Murder suicides. And it's more prevalent right now in the African American community. The murder suicides. There can be murders, domestic violence by murder. I just went to the silent witness program and we're. South Carolina is actually in double digits now for men dying. Men dying at the hands of domestic violence. Really in the last year we've had, we've hit the double digits now for men. [00:30:50] Speaker B: And that's at the hands of the years of a woman. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Or either they're, you know, they're. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Oh, they haven't killed the male partner. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Yes. And that's the first time. The men are going in some alarming numbers now, dying. Whether it's been stabbing, shootings, strangulations, they've been dying. [00:31:08] Speaker B: So it's control. [00:31:11] Speaker A: It's the control. [00:31:12] Speaker B: It's the, I gotta have you your mind and I don't want you to be with no one else. [00:31:16] Speaker A: And some of those cases of the people dying is because they were leaving. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Because they were leaving. [00:31:24] Speaker A: It's because they were leaving and they, you know, we got to support people through whatever they're going through. The faith based thing is it's the prayer or, you know, a lot of times it's the, like you, you can't have two things at once. You can pray about it. So if you're praying about it, why are you going to get in therapy about it? [00:31:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:47] Speaker A: Why are you going to the domestic violence center? Because there's nothing that God can't do. We have to leave it here. You take it to the altar and you leave it there. And we have. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Two things can be true at the same time. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah, but we are covered by grandmother's prayers. We're covered by their teachings, we're covered by aunts, we're covered by, covered by all of those prayers. People who. I know that I'm the baby of family. My parents were in their 40s and I can see the, the avenue, the two different avenues. And I can understand why they say that. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:32:20] Speaker A: But I think we need to know that God does call. He does, you know, he qualifies the call he does so he People in the right places. [00:32:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:32] Speaker A: A lot of times are the people that God has qualified. Absolutely, absolutely. To do the calling. So I. Some things they want to separate it as not church business. It is church business. It is very much so. And it needs to be in confidence and it needs to be with the proper support because it could be a catch 22. Like, I have two different types of business cards. I have one that just has some little doves on it. That's a pretty purple with some little light blue on it. Then another one is from my agency that I work with. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:33:03] Speaker A: I don't give a. The agency cars the domestic violence victims. And then I call before I mail a letter. Sometimes I'll ask, is it okay if I can mail this letter? A lot of times I say no. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Really? [00:33:17] Speaker A: Email it to me. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:19] Speaker A: And if that card. Because if that card gets to the house. Yes. And if that card gets found, you know, then I had a lady, hey, let me give you a card to people. Oh, don't give that one to people. Because then you might give it to an abuser who. Now let me, let me figure out who. Who is helping people. [00:33:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:36] Speaker A: And so a lot of times why these emergency safe shelters are in confidential areas. It takes a lot to be able to get into one because people do navigate the system and to try to figure this out. [00:33:47] Speaker B: Right. And so with that being said, you know, I'm a school counselor. And so there have been times where we've had students that are enrolled, them and their moms. It's been the moms and they've been in shelters, emergency shelters. And so we don't know where the bus. Like they have a bus stop, but it's not where the shelter is. We don't know what the address for the shelter. We know they're in a shelter. We don't know the address for the shelter. We don't know the bus stop. We are told at any time they can just up and leave. We. They come with an African. Like, there's so many parameters that are put in place so that they are protected. There are so many safe words and all of these things that are put in place because you never know if the abuser is going to try to locate them, try to find them, try to get that information. And you know, those things that we take for granted, but it is absolutely the case. And it's very. Yeah, it's very scary, but it's. It's true. It's real. Because they can and will try to find them. [00:34:52] Speaker A: And there's a whole address confidentiality program, actually, with the state, with the attorney general's office that does conceal addresses. And so you don't even have to fear moving. You can get a part of that address confidentiality program. It's the ACP and it's on. Everything's on the websites for Attorney general's office SC leva. There's so many resources out here. And then you'll just be clicking and clicking and you'll go down a rabbit hole, like, wow. Because I hear a lot. Just me being me, not telling nobody that I'm a victim advocate. And there's nothing here for this. There's nothing here for that. Now, two things can exist. I know there's no domestic violence resources in the Myrtle beach area, which there should be because it's a human trafficking hub. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. Wait, say that again. Wait, you said what now? [00:35:39] Speaker A: Myrtle beach is a human trafficking hub. [00:35:41] Speaker B: But prior to that, you said there's no. [00:35:43] Speaker A: No domestic violence shelters. [00:35:44] Speaker B: There's no. [00:35:44] Speaker A: No domestic violence. No kind of programs, no nonprofit, no full profit. They do have like a legal. Legal aid downtown. And it might be like, I forget the name of the office that does handle domestic violence directly there, but it's not primarily. Like, we have PD Coalition Against Domestic and Sexual Assault. And it stretches beyond the PD counties. And not the Grand Strand, though, but it's pd. [00:36:16] Speaker B: That is amazing. Yeah, that is amazing. I had no idea. [00:36:19] Speaker A: That's the PD coalition. Yeah, that's what that. That's what that makes sense. So the Grand Strand is a whole different ball game. And they have the rape crisis center. [00:36:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:27] Speaker A: But that primarily is for rape. And they don't have emergency safe shelter. They don't even have shelters in the Myrtle beach area. [00:36:34] Speaker B: And that is human trafficking. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Human trafficking, hub. And guess what's in human trafficking? Domestic violence. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Because they do groom victims. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Yes, they do. [00:36:46] Speaker A: They groom them. And. And it's in our churches, our faith based community. We cannot protect human trafficking. And a lot of times our radar is off. We call it discernment. [00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:00] Speaker A: And a lot of times in the faith based community, we got to check with discernment or projecting our own insecurities. Let's just say you have a member who was a victim of molestation who did used to do certain things as a child, and she sees these things in another child. She's trying to see herself. You're not a professional. And you know, and I'm gonna get into. We have something going on in the media right now, like what is like, okay, if you're not the professional, you got to let the professionals handle it. Absolutely do have any kind of slight inclinations. I do believe there's different channels to properly address things without being accusatory. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:37] Speaker A: However, I don't. As an advocate, I'm not someone who trains or thinks that your clothing can dictate whether or not if you can be victimized or not. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:49] Speaker A: I don't think that just because you hug men that you love are affectionate to men that you. You know. Because I. The thing I'm saying about the faith based. I knew someone that was triggered by a young girl sitting on her dad's lap. She just pops down on it. She's too big for that. And blah, blah, blah. Like this. This was somebody who just was upset about that. Every time he. He walks out, she. He's giving her a kiss every time he leaves. And he shouldn't do that in front of people. Like he kissing his daughter on the lips. She's 14 years old. And I was like, okay, so what do I need to report that to then person trying to come to. To me and another trusted person. [00:38:28] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:38:29] Speaker A: And then we're like, what's going on? And we were trying to figure out. Come to find out. This person was molested by members of their family. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:38] Speaker A: But in her mind, this little girl was just so triggered. So think about how mortified this child felt when it did. When someone did question her. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:48] Speaker A: About loving her dad. [00:38:50] Speaker B: And all she was doing was just loving her dad. Yeah. [00:38:53] Speaker A: And he's just like. I don't even get he. She likes the kids. My daughter wants to give me a kiss and she has a thing where she wanted to. She know I don't like that lip gloss. And she was kissing me purposely on the lips so I can taste the lip gloss. Like, you know, it was just like a dad. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Daughter thing. Okay. [00:39:08] Speaker A: And this lady was just so bothered by that. [00:39:10] Speaker B: So. [00:39:11] Speaker A: But she said she was discerning it. [00:39:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:39:15] Speaker A: She said she was discerning the interesting. [00:39:17] Speaker B: So we have to be. Yeah. [00:39:19] Speaker A: We got to check our discernment at the door. Are we projecting the insecurity? Are we projecting them with. It's like a. Into somebody says something like your check your intuition. Your intuition is not going to steer you wrong. Think about how many things can be going on in the facet of your day. I could have my coffee order could have been wrong. Trauma. Trauma can. Can come in different ways. [00:39:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:44] Speaker A: My coffee order could have been wrong. The school could have Been calling me about my kid. I'm already aggravated. [00:39:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:49] Speaker A: You know, I got all this stuff going on and someone can literally just do one thing and I'm going to say, you know what, that's bad too, because I didn't have all this bad happen today. And now I see this child with dirty clothes on. I'm going to assume this child is being neglected when really the child was rolling around dirt outside. But every day I see this kid, the kid was dirty though. But I didn't check my, my stuff at the door. I didn't put all my stuff down before I tried to pick up something else. And it's like, you know, and this is me as a professional, a trained professional who is trained to assess and assess and assess is you got to check it at the door a lot. Even, you know, just the pause you see in parenting. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:33] Speaker A: You gotta pause. [00:40:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:34] Speaker A: You with the kids all day long, you gotta pause. You want to be in you. [00:40:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Easy to get into. And then we're talking about faith based. It's easy to get into that flesh, right? [00:40:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:40:43] Speaker A: But I think the faith based community should be the strongest pillar because the faith based community can operate in the spiritual. [00:40:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:51] Speaker A: And that can cover that. First Corinthians. Can, can cover it all. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Yes, it can. [00:40:57] Speaker A: The multitude of whatever if they're going through, if they not going through it can cover it. And it could bring them out and bring them to it. It's been, well, domestic. A couple with domestic violence issues. They're constantly doing the work in the church. Can't name the church, but they're doing the work in the church. But a lot of the members we're trying to, like we're judging, like basically there's a lot of different stuff. We don't mind our business enough. And you know, you want to start digging and then I guess this foia, this whole, this Google, this phone is awful because then you're going and digging up all this stuff, all the old stuff. And these people are trying to move forward. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Right. So things that happened in the past, they've worked through it. That's what you're saying. Like they worked through it was to. [00:41:42] Speaker A: The point where they were about to want to move the church. But they had a strong pastor and first lady. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:48] Speaker A: That chastised the church. [00:41:50] Speaker B: Wow. [00:41:51] Speaker A: On not doing it. Because you gotta love everybody. Everybody. You got to cover everything. And so that's why I feel like the faith based community should be able to cover it. And I think that it doesn't cover It. Because we're so used to that. You're minding your business, you staying out of it when his way is proper ways to get into it, bringing those. Those resources in that church, having that stuff in especially. It's easier during the Domestic Violence Awareness Month, where you can slide that on in. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Exactly. But it needs to be available at all times. [00:42:19] Speaker A: All times. [00:42:20] Speaker B: At all times. And to be observant. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:22] Speaker B: And to always be observant of things that just kind of seem a little off. Something just doesn't seem right. Or the sister or the brother feels comfortable enough to say, hey, this is what's going on. [00:42:33] Speaker A: We need a safe person. [00:42:34] Speaker B: We need a safe person. [00:42:35] Speaker A: We need safety plans. Safety planning. [00:42:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:38] Speaker A: If, you know, you get triggered and you're aggravated by her, call sister, you know, sister plowing right now, call her. Call, you know, call your uncle who do you have a person, you know, a lot. That's where the support comes into play instead of making the people do it themselves. [00:42:53] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:42:54] Speaker A: You got to be supportive. [00:42:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Especially when you are saying that you want to. When you get to that place. Because people eventually get to that place where they say they want to leave, but they have to have a plan and they need to have the support. Right. Available to know that when it's going to be scary, it's going to be. It's going to be really scary. [00:43:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:19] Speaker B: But if this is where you are, you have come up with this plan, understand that this is the. That you have a support to help you through that. [00:43:27] Speaker A: Support to help you through it. And it's going to be some instances more often than never, right. Where we have a Tina Turner mama, right. Who, you know, we have to watch having these, these throwing rocks and hot hands conversations. You know, the conversation that you can have with the, you know, I don't want to say. Well, with the offender, you should be able to have with the victim and vice versa. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:49] Speaker A: There shouldn't be anything. So that's why I feel like the conversation should need to be had together. Right. And then it's like, okay, if it is a safe person, the safe person is the one got to take the kids on the weekend. Okay. Maybe we need to cut the person out of that. Maybe dad needs to drop the kids off on at school on Monday and mom picks him up on Friday. We got to figure out plans in this. And then. But then we have to have everybody agreeing to it also where it won't just be, you know what? Well, why can't we do it like the of course, the. Sometimes the. I see where the victim is, like, I'm not. I'm not afraid of him. I can go and see him. And it's like. Nobody's saying you're afraid. We're just putting these things in place now. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Right. To make sure you're. [00:44:29] Speaker A: To make sure you're safe and make sure we're not going back to where we were at seven years ago. [00:44:34] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:44:34] Speaker A: Because we're seven years in the front. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Right. We've made it through this. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Right. And then people don't realize, okay, there was a physical altercation seven years ago. [00:44:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:42] Speaker A: So now it's not physical anymore. [00:44:44] Speaker B: You've made it through that. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Now we tugging war with the kids. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Right, right, right, right, right. So we just want to make sure we got a plan. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Yeah, the plan. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Right. Moving. Moving forward. So. Cause how long? I don't know how long we've been. How long we've been. [00:44:58] Speaker A: Yeah, for a little while. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Okay. No, you're good. You're good. So. All right. What message would you give someone listening right now who may be in an unsafe relationship or in an unsafe space right now? [00:45:16] Speaker A: Unsafe space. I would call PD Coalition. I will call them. There's other ones also, too. If you don't. You're not comfortable with the local ones. Call Sister Care. That stretches out in the Midlands. I think there's some more that stretches. That stretches out to the Sumter area also, but it's confidential. Call PD Coalition. You can literally call someone and get advocacy. You just want to guide through it and they ask you, what do you want to have Happen? Is not calling 911 where it's like an incident. And if you are experiencing an incident where you do need an emergency order of protection, PD Coalition can guide you through that process. Also, I think that you need an advocate. A lot of times I see people saying, hey, I saw that person's order protection got denied or they didn't get granted. The restraining order. There are two different types of restraining orders. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:46:07] Speaker A: And you need an advocate to guide you through the proper channels to knowing how to present that to court, what evidence needs to be brought before and what is going to look like. There's a lot of different. And it's a lot of information. And it may sound like, I just may as well stay here and just deal with what's going on, but there's help for you out here. There's help. There's a lot of it. People can Google and just literally call a crisis line and they'll point you in A direction, but you can literally walk in the office Also, really, if you physically want to go and see somebody, they are not when it comes to you as an adult. They're not mandated to report that to law enforcement. It does get convoluted when their children involved when it comes into mandated reporting. But you should want everyone safe. But I would say if you're not safe, go and get the help, please. We're here. There's a lot of representation. You can. You can. Don't find it difficult. Just ask, may I have a middle aged woman? May I have a younger woman? May I have a black woman? May I have a Spanish woman? May I have a white woman? You can actually have your preferences because everybody wants you to be, you know, comfortable and you want to have your representation and know that you're safe. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Okay. What do you say to the person that says, it's my fault. [00:47:30] Speaker A: It's not your fault. [00:47:31] Speaker B: It's my fault that they're hitting me. It's my fault that they're being dis. Like they're yelling at me. It's my fault. I should have done this. I could have done this. What h. How do you help those. The people get over that internal dialogue? [00:47:44] Speaker A: We're going to. I think that that's where the therapy helps. [00:47:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Because it helps you unpack. And then a lot of things is too. People don't realize is there's a lot of indirect victims. Your sisters, your cousins. So when it feels like you're starting to get along, maybe you were sharing it. And it's my fault now because I keep staying. Everyone has been impacted by. But the trauma, informed therapy. The therapy and it's support groups. There are support groups there. You can literally go anonymously, virtually call in, in person. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:20] Speaker A: Just every week, women sit down and just talk about how they felt like it was my fault all this week and everything. And you have your, like, people with you. [00:48:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:29] Speaker A: You know, everyone's. Everybody's experience is going to be different. But you can sit down and, you know, with me, I can tell you, I know it's not your fault, but you want to hear that from the other people too. And y' all want to get to a place together where you know it wasn't your fault. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. And what keeps you motivated and hopeful in this work? [00:48:52] Speaker A: I have success stories every day. I get up every day with a. If not me, then who? I go. It's like, it doesn't feel like it's worked to me. I get, you know, this is One something that I've always been doing. I've been speaking up for myself since a small child. Everybody. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:08] Speaker A: All the time. And I've always had operated in integrity. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:12] Speaker A: And there's a. Is. I have been nurtured and supported by my parents. What people would thought was they tried to negate confrontation, but really, it's communication. [00:49:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:49:24] Speaker A: I don't, you know, hey, how are we going to get to a solution here? Because you should be able to respect if I feel some type of way. Okay. How do we move forward? And people could be like, oh, my gosh, she just came to me and was upset because this happened. But we talked about that this morning. [00:49:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:41] Speaker A: I unpack it. I don't carry it with me. That's how people look at it. Just so confrontational. But no, I. I address it, I get it out the way and I move on. Now, the next steps, but it keeps me going is that I want to be an example of that and a light in that. Even when I go back and forth with my victims, we go back and forth too. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Right. Okay. [00:50:03] Speaker A: But it's with love and it's not with judgment. And I said, okay, I understand you're upset right now, but call me back when you calm down. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Text me if you're still too upset. [00:50:12] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:50:13] Speaker A: You know, there's different avenues, and what keeps me going is the solutions. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Okay. [00:50:17] Speaker A: And the teamwork and just every day is. Is just making a stretch. And then also too, the hearing, all the. The negativity on social media and the, you know, just with people. Everybody victimizes victims over and over again. I have to keep fighting for the people. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. We appreciate you. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Thank you. Appreciate it. [00:50:42] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah. So it's a work. It doesn't end. But like I said, we appreciate you. I'm sure those who are going through it and those who will be going through it, appreciate your hard work. Don't give up. Take care of yourself. Because I know it gets heavy. I know it gets overwhelming, especially those days where you feel like, are they really listening? Is anybody listening to me? Yeah. But make sure that you are indeed taking care of yourself. So I thank you for spending time with me today. I'm sure y'. All this, it may be a part two, because there's so much more that. That we could talk about. But I just want to just ask that you continue to take care of yourself. Again, if you are someone, you know that if you're in this, if you're dealing with domestic violence in any type of any shape or form, whether it's physical, psychological, emotional. Get help. There are resources available. She's mentioned a few. We'll make sure that we add that information in our notes. We'll make sure that you have it. If you want to share your survival story, please add it to our notes. Put it in our comments. We would like to recognize you as a survivor. You are indeed a survivor, so we recognize you. We love you. We thank you for being able to make it through. Tell your story. It is some it may help someone else as they fight through what they're going through. So thank you again for being part of this episode. Make sure that you follow us. We're on all platforms. Apple, Spotify, wherever you or wherever you get your podcast. I thank you for joining me and and remember, wherever you are, wherever God has placed you to accept it, embrace it and flourish in it, get the help that you need. Make sure that you are following us. And I thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time. Thank you. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Sam.